39They replied, “We are able.” Then Jesus said to them, “The cup that I drink you will drink, and with the baptism with which I am baptized you will be baptized,
The Hebrew, Greek, and Latin that is translated as “cup” in English is translated in Sar with “calabash” (see here ) (source: Ngarbolnan Riminan in Le Sycomore 2000, p. 20ff. ) and in Bariai with “coconut shell” (source: Bariai Back Translation)
Retrotraducciones en español (haga clic o pulse aquí)
Jacobo y Juan fueron (a Jesús) y dijeron: “Maestro nosotros dos queremos pedir algo, por favor dinos que sí.”
Jesús (dijo): “¿Qué es lo que quieren decirme?”
Dijeron: “Cuando tú llegues a ser el rey superior sentado en el trono ¿podemos nosotros dos estar sentados a ambos lados de ti?”
Jesús (dijo): “No saben lo que me dicen. Mira, por ejemplo, un poco adelante yo beberé una copa amarga. ¿Uds lo pueden?
Otro ejemplo: yo bajaré en el agua del mar, quiere decir que sufriré fuertemente. ¿Uds lo aceptarían?” Los dos (dijeron que) sí podrían.
Jesús dijo: “yo sufriré e igual en el futuro uds dos sufrirán, pero antes Dios ya ha elegido dos personas que estarán sentados a ambos lados de mi, yo no puede elegirlos.”
Los diez discípulos estaban furiosos y pensaban que Jacobo y Juan eran malos.
Jesús se volteó (hacia los diez) y los llamó y los discípulos vinieron. (Jesús dijo): “Uds saben que en otros países los líders abusan a todas las personas simples, y los mandan.
Uds, los discípulos, no copien esta mentalidad, apartense.
Si uds quieren ser líderes deben servir y ayudar, el líder más importante debe ser humilde y servir y ayudar a las personas.
El hijo de hombre ha venido, ¿y todas las personas lo sirven? No, el opuesto, el hijo de hombre sirve a todas las personas.
El hijo de hombre acepta morir en lugar de ellos para salvar a muchas personas.”
James and John went (to Jesus) and said: “Teacher, the two of us want to ask something, please tell us yes.”
Jesus (said): “What do you want to tell me?”
They said: “When you become king, highly exalted sitting on the throne, can the two of us be seated on both sides of you?”
Jesus (said): You don’t know what you are saying to me. Look, an example: in a short while I will drink a bitter cup. Can you do that?
“Another example: I will go down in the waters of the sea, which means that I will undergo strong suffering. Would you accept that?” The two (said that) yes they could.
Jesus said: “I will suffer and likewise the two of you will suffer, but God has already chosen the two people who will sit on either side of me, I cannot choose them.”
The ten disciples were furious and thought that James and John were bad.
Jesus turned (towards the ten) and called them and the disciples came. (Jesus said):””You know that in other countries the leaders abuse the simple people, and order them around.
“You, the disciples, should not copy this mindset, no keep away from it.
“If you want to be leaders you have to serve and help, the most important leader must be humble ans serve and help the people.
“The Son of Man has come down, and do all the people serve him? No, the opposite, the Son of Man serves all the people.
“The Son of Man agrees to die in their place to save many people.”
Two disciples, the brothers James and John, sons of Zebedee, said to Jesus:
— We want to ask you to do one thing for us.
Jesus said:
— What do you want to ask me to do for you?
Brothers:
— In the future, when you are glorified and gain power and glory and sit on the throne, let us sit beside you, one on your right hand and one on your left.
Jesus said:
— Do you know or do you not know that I have many sufferings ahead of me? Will you be able to walk the same path — numerous sufferings, pain, death. Will you be able to endure it all?
The two brothers said:
— Yes, we are ready, we can.
Jesus said:
— Yes, different and numerous sufferings will I have. The same sufferings you will have. I will accept suffering, pain, death. In the same way you will have it. But, I don’t decide who gets to sit next to the throne. God decides that.
The other ten disciples heard Jesus talking to these two disciples and became angry.
Jesus called them over and said:
— With the Gentiles, the rulers subdue, humiliate the rest of the people. Do not do as they do. Remember, the one of you who wants to be superior, who wants to be the first, he must be inferior, like a servant, helping the others, taking care of them.
I, the Son of God who became a man, I have not come to subdue and humiliate, I have come to be lower, as a servant, ready to care and help. Even my life I am ready to give for the salvation of all people.
Original Russian back-translation (click or tap here):
Два ученика, братья Иаков и Иоанн, сыновья Заведея, сказали Иисусу:
— Мы хотим попросить тебя сделать для нас одну вещь.
Иисус говорит:
— Что вы хотите попросить меня, чтобы я сделал для вас?
Братья:
— В будущем, когда ты прославишься и обретешь власть и славу и воссядешь на престоле, позволь нам сесть рядом с тобой: одному по правую руку, другому — по левую.
Иисус сказал:
— А вы знаете или не знаете, что мне предстоят многочисленные страдания? Вы сможете пройти такой же путь — многочисленные страдания, боль, смерть, сможете ли все это претерпеть?
Два брата сказали:
— Да, мы готовы, мы можем.
Иисус сказал:
— Да, различные и многочисленные страдания будут у меня. Такие же страдания будут у вас. Я приму страдания, боль, смерть. Так же и у вас это будет. Но, не я решаю, кому сидеть рядом с престолом. Это решает Бог.
Остальные десять учеников услышали, как Иисус разговаривает с этими двумя учениками и стали гневаться.
Иисус их подозвал и сказал:
— У язычников правители подчиняют, унижают остальных людей. Вы не поступайте, как они. Запомните, тот из вас, кто хочет быть выше, кто хочет быть первым человеком, тот должен быть ниже, как слуга, помогать остальным, заботиться о них.
Я, сын Бога, ставший человеком, я пришел не для того, чтобы подчинять и унижать, я пришел, чтобы быть ниже, как слуга, готовый заботиться и помогать. Даже мою жизнь я готов отдать ради спасения всех людей.
Many languages distinguish between inclusive and exclusive first-person plural pronouns (“we”). (Click or tap here to see more details)
The inclusive “we” specifically includes the addressee (“you and I and possibly others”), while the exclusive “we” specifically excludes the addressee (“he/she/they and I, but not you”). This grammatical distinction is called “clusivity.” While Semitic languages such as Hebrew or most Indo-European languages such as Greek or English do not make that distinction, translators of languages with that distinction have to make a choice every time they encounter “we” or a form thereof (in English: “we,” “our,” or “us”).
For this verse, translators typically select the exclusive form (excluding Jesus).
Source: Velma Pickett and Florence Cowan in Notes on Translation January 1962, p. 1ff.
Following are a number of back-translations of Mark 10:39:
Uma: “They said: ‘We (excl.) are indeed able!’ Yesus said: ‘True, you will indeed carry suffering like I will carry, and you will endure what I will endure.” (Source: Uma Back Translation)
Yakan: “‘Yes, we (excl.) are willing,’ they said. Then Isa said to them, ‘You will truly be persecuted as I will soon be persecuted and you will be killed as I will soon be killed.” (Source: Yakan Back Translation)
Western Bukidnon Manobo: “They answered, ‘Yes, we can endure it.’ And Jesus said, ‘Its true that you will be caused to endure that which is like torment and the difficulties which I will be caused to endure,” (Source: Western Bukidnon Manobo Back Translation)
Kankanaey: “‘It can be,’ they said. Then Jesus said, ‘Yes admittedly you will suffer like my suffering/hardship. You will also die like my death.” (Source: Kankanaey Back Translation)
Tagbanwa: “‘Oh, we can,’ was the answer of those two. ‘The truth is,’ said Jesus, ‘as for the hardship which I will experience, you will also experience it. And you will be subjected to extremely severe hardship like I will be subjected to.” (Source: Tagbanwa Back Translation)
About the translation of the Greek term that is usually transliterated with the terms “baptism” or “baptize” in English (for other English translations see below), Bratcher / Nida (1961) say this (click or tap for details):
“[It] has given rise not only to an immense amount of discussion in terms of its meaning within the Judaeo-Christian historical context, but also continues to introduce serious problems for translators today. In many instances the recommendation has been to transliterate, i.e. employing some indigenous equivalent of the sounds of the word in some more prestigious language spoken in the region, e.g. English, French, Spanish, or Portuguese. Though this solution tends to remove some theological controversies, it does not completely satisfy everyone, for not only does it avoid the problem of the mode of baptism, but it leaves the Scriptures with a zero word. Unfortunately, many of the controversies over the indigenous equivalent of baptism arise because of a false evaluation of a word’s so-called etymology. For example, in Yucateco the word for baptism means literally ‘to enter the water’, but this term is used freely by both Presbyterians and Roman Catholics, even though it might appear to be strictly ‘Baptist nomenclature.’ Similarly, in Kekchí, an even ‘stronger’ term ‘to put under the water’ is employed by Nazarenes and Roman Catholics. Obviously the meanings of these Yucateco and Kekchí words are not derivable from their literal significance but from the fact that they now designate a particular kind of Christian rite. To insist on changing such a well-established usage (and one to which immersionists could certainly not object) would seem quite unwarranted. The situation may, on the other hand, be reversed. There are instances in which immersionists are quite happy to use a term which though it means literally ‘to put water on the head’ [see below for the translations in Northern Emberá and Ewe] has actually lost this etymological value and refers simply to the rite itself, regardless of the way in which it is performed. A translator should not, however, employ an already existing expression or construct a new phrase which will in its evident meaning rule out any major Christian constituency.
“There are, of course, a number of instances in which traditional terms for ‘baptism’ need modification. In some situations the word may mean only ‘to give a new name to’ (one aspect of christening) or ‘to be one who lights’ (referring to a custom in some traditions of lighting a candle at the time of baptism). However, in order to reproduce the core of significant meaning of the original Biblical term, it is important to explore the entire range of indigenous usage in order that whatever term is chosen may have at least some measure of cultural relevance. In Navajo (Dinė), for example, there were four principal possibilities of choice: (1) borrowing some transliterated form of the English word, (2) constructing a phrase meaning ‘to touch with water’ (an expression which would have been acceptable with some groups in the field, but not with others), (3) using a phrase meaning ‘ceremonial washing’ (but this expression seemed to be too closely related to indigenous practices in healing ceremonies), and (4) devising an expression meaning ‘to dedicate (or consecrate) by water’, without specifying the amount of water employed. This last alternative was chosen as the most meaningful and the best basis for metaphorical extension and teaching.
“On the other hand, it would be wrong to think that the meaning of ‘washing’ must be rejected in all languages. For example, it is quite appropriate in Kpelle culture, since it ties in with male puberty rites, and in the San Blas Kuna society, since washing is a very important aspect of female puberty ceremonies, in some translations ‘water’ is introduced into the expression for baptism, but the quantity and means of administrating it are left quite ambiguous, e.g. ‘to get (take, receive) water’ (Tzeltal). Toraja-Sa’dan, Pamona and Batak Toba render the verb ‘to pour water over, give a bath’.” (Source: Bratcher / Nida)
Other examples of translation include:
Javanese, Indonesian and many others: transliterated forms of the Greek “baptizo”
Balinese: ngelukat (a Balinese initiation ceremony in which persons were sprinkled with consecrated water) (source for this and above: Biblical Terms in The Bible Translator 1952, p. 225ff. )
Yagaria: “gospel water” (bono’ nina) for “baptism” and “wash (or: rub) with gospel water” (bono’ ni’ folo-) for “baptize” (source for this and two above: Renck 1990, p. 84; 115)
Halh Mongolian: argon ochial (“holy washing”) (“The people in Mongolia are strictly religious and understand the meaning very well. They are familiar with the idea of water being used as a symbol of a new life and having received ‘holy washing’ means to have entered into a new sphere of life.”) (Source: A. Marthinson in The Bible Translator 1954, p. 74ff. ) (Note: In more recent Mongolian translations a transliteration of baptizo is used instead)
Yatzachi Zapotec: (Spanish loan word and transliteration of the Greek term) bautizar (click or tap for details):
“The Yatzachi Zapotec know the practice of baptism and have a word to express it. There would thus seem to be no problem involved. Unfortunately, however, the word for ‘baptize’ is a compound, one part being a word nowhere else used and the other part being the word for ‘water.’ Perhaps ‘water-baptize’ is the closest equivalent in English. For most contexts this presents no problem, but if the word is used in Mark 1:8, it would say, ‘He will water-baptize you with the Holy Ghost.’ In Zapotec the idea is unintelligible. To meet the problem, the Spanish word ‘bautizar’ was introduced at this point though the Zapotec word is ordinarily used. The disadvantages of this substitution are obvious, but no better solution was found.” (Source: Otis M. Leal in The Bible Translator 1951, p. 164ff.
Uab Meto: antam oe (“to enter into the water”) (click or tap for details):
“Formerly in Uab Meto the word used for ’baptism’ was ‘nasrami’ which actually came by way of Arabic from ‘Nazarene.’ Its meaning was ‘to make a Christian’ and the idea was that the one who baptized actually made Christians. Such an expression was obviously inadequate. We have used for ‘baptize’ the phrase in ‘antam oe’ which means ‘to enter into the water.’ This phrase can be used for sprinkling, for water is used as a symbol of the new life, and being baptized means for the Uab Meto to enter into a new sphere of life. Baptism is so frequently spoken of in connection with the giving of the Holy Spirit that the proper associations have arisen in the thinking of the people.” (Source: P. Middelkoop in The Bible Translator 1952 p. 165ff. )
Mandarin Chinese: Catholic: 洗 xǐ (“washing”); non-Baptist Protestant 聖洗 shèngxǐ (“holy washing”); Baptist: 浸洗 jìnxǐ (“immerse and wash”) (In the history of Chinese Bible translation the translation of the Greek baptizo was a point of great contention, so much so that in the 19th Century Baptists had a completely different set of Bible translations and even today are using different editions with the different term of the same versions that other Protestants use.) (Source: Zetzsche 2008)
The Germandas Buch translation by Roland Werner (publ. 2009-2022) uses a variety of translations, including “immersed (in water)” (eintauchen or untertauchen) but also the traditional German term for “baptism (Taufe)” or in the combination “immersed in baptism”
The disagreement about whether the translation of the Greek baptizo needed to include “immersion” not only caused conflict in China, it also led to splits — and different translations — in English-speaking countries: “The influential British and Foreign Bible Society had been a major supporter of the [Baptist] Serampore mission, but it finally severed its support in 1836 because of the Baptist interpretation of the Bible translations produced there. This led to the formation of the separate Baptist Bible Translation Society in Great Britain in 1840. Almost concurrently, in 1837, the American and Foreign Bible Society was founded in the United States as an offspring of the American Bible Society, over a controversy about a Baptist Bengali Bible translation. The American and Foreign Bible Society itself experienced another split in 1850, when a sub-group rejected the transliteration of baptizo in the English Bible and formed the American Bible Union, which published its own English New Testament in 1862/63 that used the term immerse instead of “baptize” (see here ). (Source: Zetzsche 2008)
Click or tap here to see the rest of this insight.
Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.
One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the choice of a first person singular and plural pronoun (“I” and “we” and its various forms) as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. The most commonly used watashi/watakushi (私) is typically used when the speaker is humble and asking for help. In these verses, where God / Jesus is referring to himself, watashi is also used but instead of the kanji writing system (私) the syllabary hiragana (わたし) is used to distinguish God from others.
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