38But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink or be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?”
The translation of Mark 10:38 into Avaric demanded a particularly difficult decision. [In it] we are faced with two metaphors, for which literal translation is impossible, since the expressions “drink the cup” and “be immersed in water, be washed” are, for the Avar, in no way connected with the idea of suffering and death. Nevertheless there is an equivalent for the first metaphor; in the Avaric language there is an idiomatic expression “to drink from the horn of death,” which is identical to the idea of the Gospels’ “cup.” For the second metaphor the translator used a less obvious equivalent: “to cross the river” (‘or baxine) — an expression which can express “to experience hardship, suffering” and at the same time contains the idea of immersion in water. (Source: Magomed-Kamil Gimbatov and Yakov Testelets in The Bible Translator 1996, p. 434ff. )
In Kumyk, the connotation of “lending one’s own cup to a disciple is a gesture of special honour and high approval from a teacher. So the (…) translator chose to add one word to the text, ‘bitter [cup],’ showing the implied connotation of suffering.” (Source: Andrei S. Desnitsky in The Bible Translator 2018, p. 233ff. )
The Greek in Mark 10:38 that is translated as “baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with” or similar in English is translated in the German translation by Fridolin Stier (1989) as “dipped into the baptism in which I will be dipped into.”
The Hebrew, Greek, and Latin that is translated as “cup” in English is translated in Sar with “calabash” (see here ) (source: Ngarbolnan Riminan in Le Sycomore 2000, p. 20ff. ) and in Bariai with “coconut shell” (source: Bariai Back Translation)
The translation of the two Greek phrases “Can you drink the cup I drink?” and “Can you be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?” im Mark 10:38 demanded a particularly difficult decision in the translation into Avaric. “We are faced with two metaphors, for which literal translation is impossible, since the expressions “drink the cup” and “be immersed in water, be washed” are, for the Avaric, in no way connected with the idea of suffering and death.
Nevertheless there is an equivalent for the first metaphor; in the Avaric language there is an idiomatic expression “to drink from the horn of death,” which is identical to the idea of the Gospels’ “cup”. For the second metaphor the translator used a less obvious equivalent: “to cross the river” (‘or baxine), an expression which can express “to experience hardship, suffering” and at the same time contains the idea of immersion in water. (Source: Magomed-Kamil Gimbatov and Yakov Testelets in The Bible Translator 1996, p. 434ff. )
Likewise, there also is an expression in Southern Toussian that fits this context exactly. “You can’t drink from my cup” means “you can’t bear as much suffering as I can.” (Source: Hannes Wiesmann in Holzhausen / Riderer 2010, p. 35)
In Michoacán Nahuatl this section is translated as “because of me you will suffer as I suffer, and because of me you will die.” (Source: B. Moore / G. Turner in Notes on Translation 1967, p. 1ff.)
Like many languages (but unlike Greek or Hebrew or English), Tuvan uses a formal vs. informal 2nd person pronoun (a familiar vs. a respectful “you”). Unlike other languages that have this feature, however, the translators of the Tuvan Bible have attempted to be very consistent in using the different forms of address in every case a 2nd person pronoun has to be used in the translation of the biblical text.
As Voinov shows in Pronominal Theology in Translating the Gospels (in: The Bible Translator2002, p. 210ff. ), the choice to use either of the pronouns many times involved theological judgment. While the formal pronoun can signal personal distance or a social/power distance between the speaker and addressee, the informal pronoun can indicate familiarity or social/power equality between speaker and addressee.
Here, Jesus is addressing his disciples, individuals and/or crowds with the formal pronoun, showing respect.
In Nepali translations, Jesus addresses his disciples and other people with the medium honorific pronoun timīlē (तिमीले) or timīlēharū (तिमीलेहरू). This disciples respond with a high honorific pronoun. (Source: Chitra Chhetri in The Bible Translator 2009, p. 73ff. )
In most Dutch translations, Jesus addresses his disciples and common people with the informal pronoun, whereas they address him with the formal form.
Retrotraducciones en español (haga clic o pulse aquí)
Jacobo y Juan fueron (a Jesús) y dijeron: “Maestro nosotros dos queremos pedir algo, por favor dinos que sí.”
Jesús (dijo): “¿Qué es lo que quieren decirme?”
Dijeron: “Cuando tú llegues a ser el rey superior sentado en el trono ¿podemos nosotros dos estar sentados a ambos lados de ti?”
Jesús (dijo): “No saben lo que me dicen. Mira, por ejemplo, un poco adelante yo beberé una copa amarga. ¿Uds lo pueden?
Otro ejemplo: yo bajaré en el agua del mar, quiere decir que sufriré fuertemente. ¿Uds lo aceptarían?” Los dos (dijeron que) sí podrían.
Jesús dijo: “yo sufriré e igual en el futuro uds dos sufrirán, pero antes Dios ya ha elegido dos personas que estarán sentados a ambos lados de mi, yo no puede elegirlos.”
Los diez discípulos estaban furiosos y pensaban que Jacobo y Juan eran malos.
Jesús se volteó (hacia los diez) y los llamó y los discípulos vinieron. (Jesús dijo): “Uds saben que en otros países los líders abusan a todas las personas simples, y los mandan.
Uds, los discípulos, no copien esta mentalidad, apartense.
Si uds quieren ser líderes deben servir y ayudar, el líder más importante debe ser humilde y servir y ayudar a las personas.
El hijo de hombre ha venido, ¿y todas las personas lo sirven? No, el opuesto, el hijo de hombre sirve a todas las personas.
El hijo de hombre acepta morir en lugar de ellos para salvar a muchas personas.”
James and John went (to Jesus) and said: “Teacher, the two of us want to ask something, please tell us yes.”
Jesus (said): “What do you want to tell me?”
They said: “When you become king, highly exalted sitting on the throne, can the two of us be seated on both sides of you?”
Jesus (said): You don’t know what you are saying to me. Look, an example: in a short while I will drink a bitter cup. Can you do that?
“Another example: I will go down in the waters of the sea, which means that I will undergo strong suffering. Would you accept that?” The two (said that) yes they could.
Jesus said: “I will suffer and likewise the two of you will suffer, but God has already chosen the two people who will sit on either side of me, I cannot choose them.”
The ten disciples were furious and thought that James and John were bad.
Jesus turned (towards the ten) and called them and the disciples came. (Jesus said):””You know that in other countries the leaders abuse the simple people, and order them around.
“You, the disciples, should not copy this mindset, no keep away from it.
“If you want to be leaders you have to serve and help, the most important leader must be humble ans serve and help the people.
“The Son of Man has come down, and do all the people serve him? No, the opposite, the Son of Man serves all the people.
“The Son of Man agrees to die in their place to save many people.”
Two disciples, the brothers James and John, sons of Zebedee, said to Jesus:
— We want to ask you to do one thing for us.
Jesus said:
— What do you want to ask me to do for you?
Brothers:
— In the future, when you are glorified and gain power and glory and sit on the throne, let us sit beside you, one on your right hand and one on your left.
Jesus said:
— Do you know or do you not know that I have many sufferings ahead of me? Will you be able to walk the same path — numerous sufferings, pain, death. Will you be able to endure it all?
The two brothers said:
— Yes, we are ready, we can.
Jesus said:
— Yes, different and numerous sufferings will I have. The same sufferings you will have. I will accept suffering, pain, death. In the same way you will have it. But, I don’t decide who gets to sit next to the throne. God decides that.
The other ten disciples heard Jesus talking to these two disciples and became angry.
Jesus called them over and said:
— With the Gentiles, the rulers subdue, humiliate the rest of the people. Do not do as they do. Remember, the one of you who wants to be superior, who wants to be the first, he must be inferior, like a servant, helping the others, taking care of them.
I, the Son of God who became a man, I have not come to subdue and humiliate, I have come to be lower, as a servant, ready to care and help. Even my life I am ready to give for the salvation of all people.
Original Russian back-translation (click or tap here):
Два ученика, братья Иаков и Иоанн, сыновья Заведея, сказали Иисусу:
— Мы хотим попросить тебя сделать для нас одну вещь.
Иисус говорит:
— Что вы хотите попросить меня, чтобы я сделал для вас?
Братья:
— В будущем, когда ты прославишься и обретешь власть и славу и воссядешь на престоле, позволь нам сесть рядом с тобой: одному по правую руку, другому — по левую.
Иисус сказал:
— А вы знаете или не знаете, что мне предстоят многочисленные страдания? Вы сможете пройти такой же путь — многочисленные страдания, боль, смерть, сможете ли все это претерпеть?
Два брата сказали:
— Да, мы готовы, мы можем.
Иисус сказал:
— Да, различные и многочисленные страдания будут у меня. Такие же страдания будут у вас. Я приму страдания, боль, смерть. Так же и у вас это будет. Но, не я решаю, кому сидеть рядом с престолом. Это решает Бог.
Остальные десять учеников услышали, как Иисус разговаривает с этими двумя учениками и стали гневаться.
Иисус их подозвал и сказал:
— У язычников правители подчиняют, унижают остальных людей. Вы не поступайте, как они. Запомните, тот из вас, кто хочет быть выше, кто хочет быть первым человеком, тот должен быть ниже, как слуга, помогать остальным, заботиться о них.
Я, сын Бога, ставший человеком, я пришел не для того, чтобы подчинять и унижать, я пришел, чтобы быть ниже, как слуга, готовый заботиться и помогать. Даже мою жизнь я готов отдать ради спасения всех людей.
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