pain-love

The Hebrew and Greek that is translated as “love” in English is typically translated in Hakka Chinese as thung-siak / 痛惜 or “pain-love” when it refers to God’s love.

The same term is used for a variety of Hebrew terms that cover a range of English translations that refer to God as the agent, including “love,” “compassion,” and “mercy.”

Paul McLean explains: “[Thung-siak / 痛惜] has been used for many years in a popular Hakka-Christian mountain song based on John 3:16. The translation team decided that for this and other reasons it would be a good rendering here. It helps point to the fact that God’s ‘love’ is a compassionate (cum passio, with suffering) love.”

principalities / rulers

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The Greek that is translated as “principalities” or “rulers” in English is translated in various ways:

angel

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The Greek, Hebrew, Ge’ez, and Aramaic that is translated as “angel” in English versions is translated in many ways:

  • Pintupi-Luritja: ngaṉka ngurrara: “one who belongs in the sky” (source: Ken Hansen quoted in Steven 1984a, p. 116.)
  • Tetela, Kpelle, Balinese, and Mandarin Chinese: “heavenly messenger”
  • Shilluk / Igede: “spirit messenger”
  • Mashco Piro: “messenger of God”
  • Batak Toba: “envoy, messenger”
  • Navajo (Dinė): “holy servant” (source for this and above: Bratcher / Nida 1961; Igede: Andy Warren-Rothlin)
  • Central Mazahua: “God’s worker” (source: Ronald D. Olson in Notes on Translation January, 1968, p. 15ff.)
  • Saramaccan: basia u Masa Gaangadu köndë or “messenger from God’s country” (source: Jabini 2015, p. 86)
  • Mairasi: atatnyev nyaa or “sent-one” (source: Enggavoter 2004)
  • Shipibo-Conibo: “word bringer” (source: James Lauriault in The Bible Translator 1951, p. 32ff. )
  • Apali: “God’s one with talk from the head” (“basically God’s messenger since head refers to any leader’s talk”) (source: Martha Wade)
  • Michoacán Nahuatl: “clean helper of God” (source: B. Moore / G. Turner in Notes on Translation 1967, p. 1ff.)
  • Noongar: Hdjin-djin-kwabba or “spirit good” (source: Warda-Kwabba Luke-Ang)
  • Wè Northern (Wɛɛ): Kea ‘a “sooa or “the Lord’s soldier” (also: “God’s soldier” or “his soldier”) (source: Drew Maust)
  • Iwaidja: “a man sent with a message” (Sam Freney explains the genesis of this term [in this article ): “For example, in Darwin last year, as we were working on a new translation of Luke 2:6–12 in Iwaidja, a Northern Territory language, the translators had written ‘angel’ as ‘a man with eagle wings’. Even before getting to the question of whether this was an accurate term (or one that imported some other information in), the word for ‘eagle’ started getting discussed. One of the translators had her teenage granddaughter with her, and this word didn’t mean anything to her at all. She’d never heard of it, as it was an archaic term that younger people didn’t use anymore. They ended up changing the translation of ‘angel’ to something like ‘a man sent with a message’, which is both more accurate and clear.”)

Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between. One way to do this is through the use of an honorific prefix as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. When the referent is God, the “divine” honorific prefix mi- (御 or み) is used as in mi-tsukai (御使い) or “messenger (of God).” (Source: S. E. Doi, see also S. E. Doi in Journal of Translation, 18/2022, p. 37ff. )

Bender / Belt (2025, p. 2f.) report about the translation of “angel” in Cherokee: “In John, the concept of angel is translated using a descriptive neologism rather than a semantic extension, suggesting the lack of a ready parallel. The plural is dmikahnawadidohi, ‘the law-givers’ or ‘those who go around looking after the medicine.’ Cherokee speakers argue that the Cherokee word for ‘law,’ dikahnawadvsdi, expresses the intent to maintain social, physical, and spiritual health and has at its core the word for ‘medicine,’ mwoli, which encompasses all aspects of social and spiritual well-being, including balance and order (Altman and Belt 2009), much more than the English word. Thus, the Cherokee word for ‘angel’ represents a new perspective on this category of spiritual beings named in the Bible. It does not derive from the concept of messenger present in both its Greek (angelos) and Hebrew (malak) antecedents perhaps because the Cherokee word for ‘messenger,’ atsinvsidasdi, is widely used to translate the foreign lexeme ‘servant.'”

See also angel (Acts 12:15) and this devotion on YouVersion .

complete verse (Romans 8:38)

Following are a number of back-translations of Romans 8:38:

  • Uma: “For I believe there is nothing that can separate us from the love of God. Die or live, he still loves us. There is no angel or power of evil-spirits, there is nothing at this time or nothing coming in the future day, there is no power in the sky or in the earth/world, there is nothing that is able to separate us from the love of God that we get because of Kristus Yesus our Lord” (verses 38 and 39) (Source: Uma Back Translation)
  • Yakan: “For I really know that he really loves us (incl.) very-much. Though we (dual) are alive or dead, he loves us. There is nothing which can remove his love from us. Even angel or demons they have no power to take away his love from us. Whatever we (dual) experience (lit. passes) now or in the future he loves us (dual) just the same.” (Source: Yakan Back Translation)
  • Western Bukidnon Manobo: “And I know that there is nothing that can separate us from the big kindness to us which God has shown to us through our Lord Jesus Christ. For even while we are still alive or whether we die, His kindness cannot be removed from us. Neither the angels nor the demons can remove it. It cannot be removed by anything that takes place now or in the future. It cannot also be removed by anyone of the supernatural beings. The supernatural beings that are in the very high places and those supernatural beings who are in the very deep places, or any created thing – they cannot separate us from the kindness which God has for us, which He shows us by means of Jesus Christ who is our Lord.” (verses 38 and 39) (Source: Western Bukidnon Manobo Back Translation)
  • Kankanaey: “Because I know for-sure that absolutely nothing is able-to-separate us from his love. Whether we die or are-alive, we will still experience his love. Even angels or evil-spirits or others that have power, they aren’t capable of destroying his love for us. Even what happens today or what has not yet happened,” (Source: Kankanaey Back Translation)
  • Tenango Otomi: “Therefore let us be certain that God always will love us. No suffering can take us from his loving us while we live. Neither can our being killed. Not even the angels can take it away. Neither can the devil. Because God loves us at the present time, and also the days that are to come.” (Source: Tenango Otomi Back Translation)
  • Mairasi: “Because I very definitely have found out this [the following]: Very very definitely nothing can possibly separate us from Great Above One’s desiring our faces for life all spread out infinitely [eternity] since we live in the palm of Yesus Kristus’ Hand. Not even death, nor life, nor sent-ones [angels], nor powerful ones [leaders], nor punishment/difficulty of now, nor anything else which there is already, nor something else [like] other difficulties which are going to happen, nor companion spirits/gods which are in the heavens, nor deep places, nor any other being which Great Above One made, those things will not cut off [nor] stop His desire for our faces [His love for us].” (verses 38 and 39) (Source: Enggavoter 2004)

Translation commentary on Romans 8:38 – 8:39

In these two verses Paul uses a series of terms which may sound foreign to the English reader, though they are actually very closely related to concepts held by people who believe in astrology. Most, if not all, of the terms are technical terms denoting astrological powers which were thought to exercise control over man and his fate. Following the mention of death and life, the actual order in which Paul lists these in verse 38 is: angels, (heavenly) rulers, the present, the future, and (heavenly) powers. Angels, rulers, and powers may describe astrological forces, and it is highly probable that the present and the future fit into the same category. The Good News Translation has slightly reordered the list, placing the present and the future together, so as to make the list sound more natural to the English reader. Moreover, a classifier, heavenly, has been placed before rulers and powers to indicate more accurately the nature of these forces, since if they were left unqualified the reader might think immediately of earthly rulers and powers.

It is not at all easy to find terms which will be meaningful in a receptor language, especially one in which there is no reflection of such belief in astrological powers. Furthermore, there are special difficulties, since some of these terms represent celestial objects (for example, angels and heavenly rulers), others are abstract (the present and the future), while still others refer to events (death and life). It may therefore be necessary in some languages to employ a number of different kinds of expressions. A translation of verse 38 may have the following semantically restructured form: “For I am certain that nothing is able to take us away from his loving us; it makes no difference whether we die or whether we live; angels, rulers, and powers in heaven are not able to separate us from his love, and what is happening now and what will happen in the future will not be able to separate us from his love.”

The terms world above and world below are literally “height” and “depth.” These also were technical astrological terms—the first referring to the highest position that a given star could reach and the second to the region below the horizon out of which the stars rise. To translate literally (even if one capitalizes the terms “height” and “depth,” as Moffatt does) fails to convey the force of these terms to the English reader. The Good News Translation attempts to come up with something that is nearest in meaning to what Paul has in mind, and so translates: neither the world above nor the world below.

The rendering of the phrases neither the world above nor the world below may be treated in a manner parallel to what has been suggested for the series in verse 38—for example, “neither the world that is above us nor the world that is below us can separate us from Christ’s love.” However, in many languages a more meaningful translation would be “nothing that is above the world and nothing that is below the world can separate us from Christ’s love.” Such a translation anticipates the following clause (there is nothing in all creation …) and may be connected to it by some such phrase as “in fact” or “that is to say”—for example, “in fact there is nothing in everything which has been created which will ever be able to separate us.”

The phrase “the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” conveys little, if any, meaning to the English reader in this form. The Good News Translation (along with other translations) tries to make Paul’s meaning explicit: the love of God which is ours through Christ Jesus our Lord (see New American Bible “the love of God that comes to us in Christ Jesus, our Lord”; An American Translation* “the love God has shown in Christ Jesus our Lord”). This love of God … through Christ Jesus may be expressed in some languages as “God’s love which he has shown by means of Christ Jesus our Lord,” “God’s love which we experience because of Christ Jesus our Lord,” or “God’s love which Jesus Christ our Lord has caused us to experience.”

Quoted with permission from Newman, Barclay M. and Nida, Eugene A. A Handbook on Paul’s Letter to the Romans. (UBS Handbook Series). New York: UBS, 1973. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .

SIL Translator’s Notes on Romans 8:38

8:38a–39c

neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord: The word neither means “not” and introduces a list of things that are introduced with nor. The word nor means “and not.” Many languages will use “and” and “not” here. For example:

not death and not life, and not angels and not principalities, and not the present and not the future, and not any powers, and not height and not depth, and not anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God
-or-
death and life, and angels and principalities, and the present and the future, and any powers, and height and depth, and anything else in all creation, cannot separate us from the love of God cannot
-or-
not death or life, or angels or principalities, or the present or the future, or any powers, or height or depth, or anything else in all creation, is able to separate us from the love of God

Some English versions group together pairs of terms (for example, the Berean Standard Bible says death nor life) by not using a comma inside each pair.

8:38a

For: This word introduces an explanation about conquering in all those situations (8:37).

I am convinced: This clause indicates that Paul was certain about what he was about to say. Here are other ways to translate this clause:

I am sure (English Standard Version)
-or-
I am certain (Good News Translation)

death: Here this word refers to physical death.

life: Here this word refers to life here on earth.

8:38b

angels: The Greek word that the Berean Standard Bible translates as angels means “messengers.” It refers here to spirit beings whom God made to serve him. Some angels rebelled against God, and the Bible sometimes calls these angels “demons” or “evil spirits.” Only demons would try to separate believers from Christ’s love. If the word or phrase you use for angels only refers to good spirit beings, you may want to:

• Explain the meaning in your translation. For example:

⌊evil⌋ angels

• Use the word “demons” or the phrase “evil spirits.” For example:

demons

principalities: Some scholars think this word refers here to demons who are leaders. Other scholars think this word refers here to people who are leaders. If possible, translate this word in a way that it could refer to either group. If you must refer either to people or demons, refer to people who are leaders here, because of the meaning of “angels” above and “powers” in 8:38b–c.

8:38c

the present: There are two ways to translate the Greek word that the Berean Standard Bible translates as the present :

(1) It refers to things that exist at the time called now for the reader of this verse. For example:

anything in the present (God’s Word)

(Revised Standard Version, New Jerusalem Bible, New American Standard Bible, King James Version, New American Bible, Revised Edition, English Standard Version, God’s Word, NET Bible, Revised English Bible, New Century Version)

(2) It refers to the time called “the present” for the reader of this verse. For example:

the present (Berean Standard Bible)

(Berean Standard Bible, New International Version, Good News Translation, Contemporary English Version)

It is recommended that you follow interpretation (1), because Paul spoke of objects or events that can possibly separate us from Christ. So speaking about a time we call the present doesn’t seem to fit here. Here are other ways to translate this phrase according to interpretation (1):

things that exist now
-or-
what happens today

the future: There are two ways to translate the Greek word that the Berean Standard Bible translates as the future :

(1) It refers to things that will exist later for the reader of this verse. For example:

anything in the future (God’s Word)

(Revised Standard Version, New Jerusalem Bible, New American Standard Bible, King James Version, New American Bible, Revised Edition, English Standard Version, God’s Word, NET Bible, Revised English Bible, New Century Version)

(2) It refers to the time called “the future” for the reader of this verse. For example:

the future (Berean Standard Bible)

(Berean Standard Bible, New International Version, Good News Translation, Contemporary English Version)

It is recommended that you follow interpretation (1), because Paul spoke of objects or events that can possibly separate us from Christ. So speaking about a time we call the future doesn’t seem to fit here. Here are other ways to translate this phrase according to interpretation (1):

things that will exist later
-or-
what has not yet happened

any powers:
This word can refer to any being that has power of any kind. But here it refers to any powerful being that might try to separate believers from Christ’s love for them. Here are other ways to translate this word:

⌊those with⌋ power
-or-
others that have power

© 2020 by SIL International®
Made available under the terms of a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License (CC BY-SA) creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0.
All Scripture quotations in this publication, unless otherwise indicated, are from The Holy Bible, Berean Standard Bible.
BSB is produced in cooperation with Bible Hub, Discovery Bible, OpenBible.com, and the Berean Bible Translation Committee.

Commentaire sur la traduction de la lettre aux Romains 8.38

8.38-39

Dans ces derniers versets, selon la note de la Traduction œcuménique de la Bible « Paul énumère une liste de forces (angéliques, démoniaques, astrologiques) considérées comme pouvant être hostiles à l’homme ». La liste de Rom 8.38 continue en Rom 8.39 avant de répéter l’un des thèmes principaux de cette section : « rien ne pourrait nous séparer de l’amour de Dieu manifeste en Jésus-Christ… » Dans la majorité des versions, Rom 8.38 termine par une virgule et la pensée se termine à la fin de Rom 8.39.

Oui, j’en ai l’assurance : est litt. en grec « car je suis convaincu que… » La conjonction γάρ gar peut introduire une raison (Nouvelle Bible Segond, « car ») ou servir d’une particule d’emphase. C’est pourquoi plusieurs versions ont Oui : « Oui, j’ai la certitude que » (Bible en français courant), et « Oui, j’en suis sûr » (Parole de Vie). La conjonction grecque (ὅτι hoti) rendue par « que » dans certaines versions, introduit le contenu de cette certitude. Dans d’autres versions, la conjonction est, par contre, représentée par les deux points, comme dans la Traduction œcuménique de la Bible. La Bible en français courant (et la Good News Bible) anticipe sur ce qui suit en Rom 8.39 en introduisant « que rien ne peut nous séparer de son amour » (Bible en français courant). Il y a plusieurs manières de rendre le verbe en avoir l’assurance. L’expression choisie doit exprimer une certitude forte.

La liste contient certaines paires de mots opposés, en commençant par la vie et la mort. Selon Rom 5.12, Rom 5.14, la mort est entrée dans le monde comme conséquence du péché d’Adam et peut donc être considérée comme une puissance hostile. Mais les croyants mettent leur espérance en Jésus-Christ, qui a vaincu la mort (1 Cor 15.54-57). Dans ce contexte, le mot vie évoque tout ce qui, dans l’existence humaine, peut mettre à l’épreuve la foi des croyants. Les traducteurs devront réfléchir sur la façon d’introduire ces noms. La Traduction œcuménique de la Bible reflète bien le grec ni la vie ni la mort, qui peut servir de modèle.

ni les anges ni les dominations représentent toute la gamme de pouvoirs spirituels. C’est la première fois que le mot anges apparaît dans cette lettre. Les anges, en grec, ἄγγελος angelos sont les envoyés ou messagers de Dieu. Rien n’est dit dans le Nouveau Testament sur l’aspect physique de ces créatures. Ils apparaissent souvent aux humains en rêve (Matt 1.20). Ils servent le Seigneur et font sa volonté (Matt 13.41). Par le passé, ils ont aidé Jésus-Christ (Matt 4.11) et de tout temps, ils s’opposent aux œuvres de Satan. Certaines langues utilisent des mots d’emprunt pour désigner les anges, mais dans d’autres on parle des « envoyés de Dieu ». Les traducteurs devraient, cependant, veiller à ce que la traduction du mot « ange » soit distincte de celle du mot « apôtre », car les deux ternes communiquent le sens d’« envoyés de Dieu ». Les dominations se rapporte aux puissances ou autorités célestes. Paul ne qualifie pas celles-ci mais il semblerait qu’il s’agisse de l’opposé des anges, donc des forces spirituelles mauvaises et invisibles dont on estimait qu’elles pouvaient avoir une influence négative sur la destinée des humains. En citant ces deux sortes de forces spirituelles, Paul insiste sur le fait qu’aucune de ces créatures ne peuvent nous séparer de l’amour de Dieu ( Rom 8.39).

ni le présent ni l’avenir : selon Viard (p. 198), il s’agit probablement de « réalités présentes et futures (qui) représentent l’ensemble des forces qui, tout au long de la vie présente, pèsent et peuvent encore peser sur les croyants pour les détourner de Dieu ». On pourrait dire, « ni aujourd’hui ni demain », ou plus précisément, « ni les choses d’aujourd’hui, ni celles de demain ».

ni les puissances : il s’agit du dernier mot du verset, mais la pensée continue en Rom 8.39. Ce mot grec, δύναμις dunamis, parle de ceux qui « ont un pouvoir » (Parole de Vie). Certains préféreront rattacher ce mot aux anges et dominations.

Dans certaines langues, on pourrait restructurer tout le verset pour dire « Car je suis certain que rien ne peut nous séparer de celui qui nous aime : que nous mourions ou que nous vivions, cela ne fait pas de différence ; les anges, les autorités et les puissances célestes ne peuvent nous séparer de cet amour. Ce qui arrive maintenant ou ce qui arrivera à l’avenir ne pourrait non plus jamais nous en séparer ».

Source: Margot, Jean-Claude & Zogbo, Lynell. La lettre aux Romains – Manuel de traduction – Commentaire linguistique et exégétique de la Bible. Alliance biblique universelle, 2021.