give thanks

The Greek that is translated as “give thanks” in English is Tzotzil as “saying to God: Because of you.” (Source: B. Moore / G. Turner in Notes on Translation 1967, p. 1ff.)

complete verse (John 6:23)

Following are a number of back-translations of John 6:23:

  • Uma: “From there, people also arrived from Tiberias town in their boats, and they landed near the eating-place of the crowd yesterday, who ate the bread that was blessed by the Lord Yesus.” (Source: Uma Back Translation)
  • Yakan: “There were boats recently arrived from the town of Tiberi beached close to where they had eaten the bread after Isa had given thanks.” (Source: Yakan Back Translation)
  • Western Bukidnon Manobo: “And there near the land where the people had eaten the bread that Jesus had thanked God for, there were some folks who landed who had come from the town of Tiberias.” (Source: Western Bukidnon Manobo Back Translation)
  • Kankanaey: “That being so, other boats arrived from Tiberias and came-to-land near where-the people -had-eaten bread when the Lord Jesus had-given-thanks.” (Source: Kankanaey Back Translation)
  • Tagbanwa: “And then there were some boats coming from Tiberias which came to shore. Where they came to shore was close to that place where those people had eaten the food which the Lord/Chief Jesus had given thanks for to God the Father.” (Source: Tagbanwa Back Translation)
  • Tenango Otomi: “But in a short time other boats which had come from the town of Tiberias arrived at the place Jesus had blessed the bread to feed the people.” (Source: Tenango Otomi Back Translation)

Lord

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The Hebrew adonai in the Old Testament typically refers to God. The shorter adon (and in two cases in the book of Daniel the Aramaic mare [מָרֵא]) is also used to refer to God but more often for concepts like “master,” “owner,” etc. In English Bible translations all of those are translated with “Lord” if they refer to God.

In English Old Testament translations, as in Old Testament translations in many other languages, the use of Lord (or an equivalent term in other languages) is not to be confused with Lord (or the equivalent term with a different typographical display for other languages). While the former translates adonai, adon and mare, the latter is a translation for the tetragrammaton (YHWH) or the Name of God. See tetragrammaton (YHWH) and the article by Andy Warren-Rothlin in Noss / Houser, p. 618ff. for more information.

In the New Testament, the Greek term kurios has at least four different kinds of use:

  • referring to “God,” especially in Old Testament quotations,
  • meaning “master” or “owner,” especially in parables, etc.,
  • as a form of address (see for instance John 4:11: “Sir, you have no bucket”),
  • or, most often, referring to Jesus

In the first and fourth case, it is also translated as “Lord” in English.

Most languages naturally don’t have one word that covers all these meanings. According to Bratcher / Nida, “the alternatives are usually (1) a term which is an honorific title of respect for a high-ranking person and (2) a word meaning ‘boss’, ‘master’, or ‘chief.’ (…) and on the whole it has generally seemed better to employ a word of the second category, in order to emphasize the immediate personal relationship, and then by context to build into the word the prestigeful character, since its very association with Jesus Christ will tend to accomplish this purpose.”

When looking at the following list of back-translations of the terms that translators in the different languages have used for both kurios and adonai to refer to God and Jesus respectively, it might be helpful for English readers to recall the etymology of the English “Lord.” While this term might have gained an exalted meaning in the understanding of many, it actually comes from hlaford or “loaf-ward,” referring to the lord of the castle who was the keeper of the bread (source: Rosin 1956, p. 121).

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Following are some of the solutions that don’t rely on a different typographical display (see above):

  • Navajo (Dinė): “the one who has charge”
  • Mossi: “the one who has the head” (the leader)
  • Uduk: “chief”
  • Guerrero Amuzgo: “the one who commands”
  • Kpelle: “person-owner” (a term which may be applied to a chief)
  • Central Pame: “the one who owns us” (or “commands us”)
  • Piro: “the big one” (used commonly of one in authority)
  • San Blas Kuna: “the great one over all” (source for this and above: Bratcher / Nida)
  • Guhu-Samane: Soopara (“our Supervisor”) (source: Ellis Deibler in Notes on Translation July, 1967, p. 5ff.)
  • Balinese: “Venerated-one” (source: Reiling / Swellengrebel)
  • Yanesha’: “the one who carries us” (source: Nida 1952, p. 159)
  • Northern Emberá: Dadjirã Boro (“our Head”)
  • Rarotongan: Atu (“master or owner of a property”)
  • Gilbertese: Uea (“a person of high status invested with authority to rule the people”)
  • Rotuman: Gagaja (“village chief”)
  • Samoan: Ali’i (“an important word in the native culture, it derives from the Samoan understanding of lordship based on the local traditions”)
  • Tahitian: Fatu (“owner,” “master”)
  • Tuvalu: Te Aliki (“chief”)
  • Fijian: Liuliu (“leader”) (source for this and six above: Joseph Hong in The Bible Translator 1994, p. 329ff. )
  • Bacama: Həmə miye: “owner of people” (source: David Frank in this blog post )
  • Hopi: “Controller” (source: Walls 2000, p. 139)
  • Iyansi: Mwol. Mwol is traditionally used for the “chief of a group of communities and villages” with legal, temporal, and spiritual authority (versus the “mfum [the term used in other Bantu languages] which is used for the chief of one community of people in one village”). Mwol is also used for twins who are “treated as special children, highly honored, and taken care of like kings and queens.” (Source: Kividi Kikama in Greed / Kruger, p. 396ff.)
  • Ghomala’: Cyəpɔ (“he who is above everyone,” consisting of the verb cyə — to surpass or go beyond — and pɔ — referring to people. No human can claim this attribute, no matter what his or her social status or prestige.” (Source: Michel Kenmogne in Theologizing in Context: An Example from the Study of a Ghomala’ Christian Hymn )
  • Binumarien: Karaambaia: “fight-leader” (Source: Oates 1995, p. 255)
  • Warlpiri: Warlaljamarri (owner or possessor of something — for more information tap or click here)

    We have come to rely on another term which emphasizes God’s essential nature as YHWH, namely jukurrarnu (see tetragrammaton (YHWH)). This word is built on the same root jukurr– as is jukurrpa, ‘dreaming.’ Its basic meaning is ‘timelessness’ and it is used to describe physical features of the land which are viewed as always being there. Some speakers view jukurrarnu in terms of ‘history.’ In all Genesis references to YHWH we have used Kaatu Jukurrarnu. In all Mark passages where kurios refers to God and not specifically to Christ we have also used Kaatu Jukurrarnu.

    New Testament references to Christ as kurios are handled differently. At one stage we experimented with the term Watirirririrri which refers to a ceremonial boss of highest rank who has the authority to instigate ceremonies. While adequately conveying the sense of Christ’s authority, there remained potential negative connotations relating to Warlpiri ceremonial life of which we might be unaware.

    Here it is that the Holy Spirit led us to make a chance discovery. Transcribing the personal testimony of the local Warlpiri pastor, I noticed that he described how ‘my Warlaljamarri called and embraced me (to the faith)’. Warlaljamarri is based on the root warlalja which means variously ‘family, possessions, belongingness’. A warlaljamarri is the ‘owner’ or ‘possessor’ of something. While previously being aware of the ‘ownership’ aspect of warlaljamarri, this was the first time I had heard it applied spontaneously and naturally in a fashion which did justice to the entire concept of ‘Lordship’. Thus references to Christ as kurios are now being handled by Warlaljamarri.” (Source: Stephen Swartz, The Bible Translator 1985, p. 415ff. )

  • Mairasi: Onggoao Nem (“Throated One” — “Leader,” “Elder”) or Enggavot Nan (“Above-One”) (source: Enggavoter 2004)
  • Obolo: Okaan̄-ene (“Owner of person(s)”) (source: Enene Enene)
  • Angami Naga: Niepu (“master,” “owner”)
  • Lotha Naga: Opvui (“owner of house / field / cattle”) — since both “Lord” and YHWH are translated as Opvui there is an understanding that “Opvui Jesus is the same as the Opvui of the Old Testament”
  • Ao Naga: Kibuba (“human master,” “teacher,” “owner of property,” etc.) (source for this and two above: Nitoy Achumi in The Bible Translator 1992 p. 438ff. )
  • Seediq: Tholang, loan word from Min Nan Chinese (the majority language in Taiwan) thâu-lâng (頭儂): “Master” (source: Covell 1998, p. 248)
  • Thai: phra’ phu pen cao (พระผู้เป็นเจ้า) (divine person who is lord) or ong(kh) cao nay (องค์เจ้านาย) (<divine classifier>-lord-boss) (source: Stephen Pattemore)
  • Arabic often uses different terms for adonai or kurios referring to God (al-rabb الرب) and kurios referring to Jesus (al-sayyid الـسـيـد). Al-rabb is also the term traditionally used in Arabic Christian-idiom translations for YHWH, and al-sayyid is an honorary term, similar to English “lord” or “sir” (source: Andy Warren-Rothlin).
  • Tamil also uses different terms for adonai/kurios when referring to God and kurios when referring to Jesus. The former is Karttar கர்த்தர், a Sanskrit-derived term with the original meaning of “creator,” and the latter in Āṇṭavar ஆண்டவர், a Tamil term originally meaning “govern” or “reign” (source: Natarajan Subramani).
  • Burunge: Looimoo: “owner who owns everything” (in the Burunge Bible translation, this term is only used as a reference to Jesus and was originally used to refer to the traditional highest deity — source: Michael Endl in Holzhausen / Riderer 2010, p. 48)
  • Yagaria: Souve, originally “war lord” (source: Renck, p. 94)
  • Aguacateco: Ajcaw ske’j: “the one to whom we belong and who is above us” (source: Rita Peterson in Holzhausen / Riderer 2010, p. 49)
  • Konkomba: Tidindaan: “He who is the owner of the land and reigns over the people” (source: Lidorio 2007, p. 66)
  • Chichewa: Ambuye Ambuye comes from the singular form Mbuye which is used to refer to: (1) someone who is a guardian or protector of someone or group of people — a grandparent who has founded a community or village; (2) someone who is a boss or master over a group of people or servants and has absolute control over them; (3) owner of something, be it a property, animals and people who are bound under his/her rule — for people this was mostly commonly used in the context of slaves and their owner. In short, Mbuye is someone who has some authorities over those who call him/her their “Mbuye.” Now, when the form Ambuye is used it will either be for honorific when used for singular or plural when referring to more than one person. When this term is used in reference to God, it is for respect to God as he is acknowledged as a guardian, protector, and ruler of everything. (Source: Mawu a Mulungu mu Chichewa Chalero Back Translation).
  • Hdi uses rveri (“lion”) as a title of respect and as such it regularly translates adon in the Old Testament. As an address, it’s most often with a possessive pronoun as in rvera ɗa (“my lion” = “my lord” or “sir”). So, for example, Genesis 15:2 (“O Lord God”) is Rvera ɗa Yawe (“My lion Yahweh”) or Ruth to Boaz in Ruth 2:13: “May I find your grace [lit. good-stomach] my lion.” This ties in nicely with the imagery of the Lord roaring like a lion (Hosea 11:10; Amos 3:8; Joel 3:16). Better still, this makes passages like Revelation 5:5 even richer when we read about rveri ma taba məndəra la Yuda, “the Lion of the tribe of Judah”. In Revelation 19:16, Jesus is rveri ta ghəŋa rveriha “the lion above lions” (“lord of lords”). (Source: Drew Maust)

Law (2013, p. 97) writes about how the Ancient Greek Septuagint‘s translation of the Hebrew adonai was used by the New Testament writers as a bridge between the Old and New Testaments: “Another case is the use of kurios referring to Jesus. For Yahweh (in English Bibles: ‘the Lord‘), the Septuagint uses kurios. Although the term kurios usually has to do with one’s authority over others, when the New Testament authors use this word from the Septuagint to refer to Jesus, they are making an extraordinary claim: Jesus of Nazareth is to be identified with Yahweh.”

See also Father / Lord.

Translation commentary on John 6:23

After the Lord had given thanks is omitted from some ancient manuscripts. New English Bible includes this clause in the text but has a footnote indicating that it is omitted by some manuscripts. Jerusalem Bible omits the clause entirely. Most translations include the words without any hint of a textual problem. If these words were a part of the original Greek text, it is difficult to see how they were omitted from some ancient manuscripts. However, they are represented in most of the Greek texts, and for this reason the UBS Committee thought it best to include them, but as a “C” choice, indicating a considerable degree of doubt regarding their authenticity.

A problem is involved in the grammatical relation of the clause after the Lord had given thanks; it should go with the immediately preceding verb had eaten. However, unless the precise relation of the events is made clear, it is possible to understand after the Lord had given thanks as related to the verb came. This problem may be resolved in two different ways. One may translate “to the place where the Lord had given thanks for the bread and then the crowd had eaten it” or “to the place where the crowd had eaten the bread; they ate it after the Lord had given thanks.” Note that it is the existence of two prior activities in this clause which causes the complication.

Quoted with permission from Newman, Barclay M. and Nida, Eugene A. A Handbook on the Gospel of John. (UBS Handbook Series). New York: UBS, 1980. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .

SIL Translator’s Notes on John 6:23

6:23a–b

This verse is parenthetical. It serves to explain how the people got to the other side of the lake in 6:24b. You may want to indicate that this verse is parenthetical or contains background information. If so, indicate that in a way that is natural in your language.

6:23a

However, some boats from Tiberias landed near the place: There is a textual problem here:

(1) Some Greek manuscripts have the word “other” instead of However. For example:

Other boats, which were from Tiberias, came to shore near the place (Good News Translation)

(English Standard Version, Good News Translation, New American Standard Bible, God’s Word)

(2) Other Greek manuscripts have the word However. For example:

But some boats from Tiberias came to shore near the place (NET Bible)

(Berean Standard Bible, NET Bible, New Century Version, Revised English Bible, Revised Standard Version)

(3) Other Greek manuscripts have both “but ” (or “however”) and “other.” For example:

Other boats, however, had put in from Tiberias, near the place (New Jerusalem Bible)

(New Jerusalem Bible, King James Version)

(4) Other Greek manuscripts have the word Then. For example:

Then some boats from Tiberias landed near the place (New International Version)

(New Revised Standard Version, New International Version)

It is recommended that you follow alternative (1). It has early manuscript support and makes the most sense in the context. Because the Berean Standard Bible does not follow that alternative, Good News Translation will be supplied as a Source Line in the Display.

Here are other ways you can translate this clause:

There came other small boats from Tiberias near to the place (New American Standard Bible)
-or-
Other boats from Tiberias arrived near the place (God’s Word)

some boats: This refers to fishing boats similar to the one that Jesus’ disciples had used. See the note on “a boat” at 6:17a.

Tiberias: Tiberias was a town named after the Roman emperor Tiberius. See also 6:1c. It may be helpful to say explicitly that Tiberias was a town:

other boats came from ⌊the town of/called⌋ Tiberias

6:23b

where the people had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks: This comment refers back to 6:10–11. The people were still at that place.

The clause after the Lord had given thanks connects to the previous clause, about the people eating the bread. It does not connect to the clause about the boats coming. The people ate the bread after the Lord gave thanks. In some languages it may be natural to translate the two events (giving thanks and eating) in chronological order. For example:

where the Lord gave thanks for the bread and the people ate it
-or-
where the Lord had blessed the bread and the people had eaten (New Living Translation (2004))

There is a textual problem here:

(1) Most Greek manuscripts include the clause after the Lord had given thanks, and most English translations include it. For example:

near the place where the people had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks (New International Version)

(Berean Standard Bible, King James Version, New American Standard Bible, Revised Standard Version, New Revised Standard Version, English Standard Version, New International Version, Revised English Bible, NET Bible, God’s Word, Good News Translation, Contemporary English Version, New Century Version)

(2) Some Greek manuscripts do not include the clause after the Lord had given thanks, and a few English translations do not include it. However, they include a footnote with the missing clause. For example:

near the place where the bread had been eaten (New Jerusalem Bible)

(New Jerusalem Bible)

It is recommended that you follow (1) and include the clause along with nearly all English translations.

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