ἐγὼ περὶ αὐτῶν ἐρωτῶ, οὐ περὶ τοῦ κόσμου ἐρωτῶ ἀλλὰ περὶ ὧν δέδωκάς μοι, ὅτι σοί εἰσιν,
9I am asking on their behalf; I am not asking on behalf of the world but on behalf of those whom you gave me, because they are yours.
In Hindi a differentiation is made between the way that the different persons of the Trinity are addressed by a regular person or by another person of the Trinity. When Jesus addresses God the Father or when God the Father addresses Jesus, a familiar form of address is used, unlike the way that any of them would be addressed with a honorific (pl.) form by anyone else.
Source: C.S. Thoburn in The Bible Translator 1963, p. 180ff.
See also Father (address for God).
Following are a number of back-translations of John 17:9:
Translators of different languages have found different ways with what kind of formality God is addressed.
Like many languages (but unlike Greek or Hebrew or modern English), Tuvan uses a formal vs. informal 2nd person pronoun (a familiar vs. a respectful “you”). Unlike other languages that have this feature, however, the translators of the Tuvan Bible have attempted to be very consistent in using the different forms of address in every case a 2nd person pronoun has to be used in the translation of the biblical text.
As Voinov shows in Pronominal Theology in Translating the Gospels (in: The Bible Translator 2002, p. 210ff. ), the choice to use either of the pronouns many times involved theological judgment. While the formal pronoun can signal personal distance or a social/power distance between the speaker and addressee, the informal pronoun can indicate familiarity or social/power equality between speaker and addressee.
In these verses, in which humans address God, the informal, familiar pronoun is used that communicates closeness.
Voinov notes that “in the Tuvan Bible, God is only addressed with the informal pronoun. No exceptions. An interesting thing about this is that I’ve heard new Tuvan believers praying with the formal form to God until they are corrected by other Christians who tell them that God is close to us so we should address him with the informal pronoun. As a result, the informal pronoun is the only one that is used in praying to God among the Tuvan church.”
In Gbaya, “a superior, whether father, uncle, or older brother, mother, aunt, or older sister, president, governor, or chief, is never addressed in the singular unless the speaker intends a deliberate insult. When addressing the superior face to face, the second person plural pronoun ɛ́nɛ́ or ‘you (pl.)’ is used, similar to the French usage of vous.
Accordingly, the translators of the current version of the Gbaya Bible chose to use the plural ɛ́nɛ́ to address God. There are a few exceptions. In Psalms 86:8, 97:9, and 138:1, God is addressed alongside other “gods,” and here the third person pronoun o is used to avoid confusion about who is being addressed. In several New Testament passages (Matthew 21:23, 26:68, 27:40, Mark 11:28, Luke 20:2, 23:37, as well as in Jesus’ interaction with Pilate and Jesus’ interaction with the Samaritan woman at the well) the less courteous form for Jesus is used to indicate ignorance of his position or mocking.” (Source Philip Noss)
In the most recent Manchu translation of 1835 (a revision of an earlier edition from 1822), God is never addressed with a pronoun but with “father” (ama /ᠠᠮᠠ) instead. Chengcheng Liu (in this post on the Cambridge Centre for Chinese Theology blog ) explains: “In Manchu tradition, as in Chinese etiquette, second-person pronouns could be considered disrespectful when speaking to superiors or spiritual beings. Manchu Shamanist prayers avoided si [‘you’] and sini [‘your’] for this very reason. To use them for God would be, in Lipovzoff’s [one of the two translators] words, ‘the most uncouth and indecent way to speak to the Almighty — as if He were a servant or slave.’ There was also a grammatical problem. In Manchu, si and sini could refer to both singular and plural subjects. For a faith that insisted on the singularity of God, this was potentially confusing. By contrast, repeating ama removed any ambiguity.”
In Dutch, Afrikaans, Gronings, and Western Frisian translations, God is always addressed with the formal pronoun.
See also formal pronoun: disciples addressing Jesus, female second person singular pronoun in Psalms.
Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.
One way to do this is through the usage (or a lack) of an honorific prefix as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. The concept of “requesting” is translated in the Shinkaiyaku Bible as o-negai (お願い), combining “request” (negai) with the respectful prefix o (お).
(Source: S. E. Doi, see also S. E. Doi in Journal of Translation, 18/2022, p. 37ff. )
Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.
One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the choice of a first person singular and plural pronoun (“I” and “we” and its various forms) as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. The most commonly used watashi/watakushi (私) is typically used when the speaker is humble and asking for help. In these verses, where God / Jesus is referring to himself, watashi is also used but instead of the kanji writing system (私) the syllabary hiragana (わたし) is used to distinguish God from others.
(Source: S. E. Doi, see also S. E. Doi in Journal of Translation, 18/2022, p. 37ff. )
See also pronoun for “God”.
Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.
One way to do this is through the usage of lexical honorific forms, i.e., completely different words, as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. In these verses, kudasaru (下さる), a respectful form of kureru (くれる) or “give” is used.
(Source: S. E. Doi, see also S. E. Doi in Journal of Translation, 18/2022, p. 37ff. )
See also respectful form of “give” (tamawaru) and give (Japanese honorifics).
In this verse Jesus prays to the Father (verses 1,5) for the disciples.
Them … those you gave me refers to Jesus’ immediate disciples. In verse 20 Jesus will pray for future believers.
The world is used here again for those who oppose God (see comments at 1.10). The fact that Jesus is not praying for the world is emphatic in the Greek sentence structure.
The contrast between the positive I pray for them and the negative I do not pray … but for those … presents some complications in translation. The contrast is particularly difficult because them in the first sentence refers to those you gave me, who are specified in the second sentence. As a result, it may be necessary to restructure the relationships, for example, “I pray for the men you gave me because they belong to you; I do not pray for the people of the world.” It is also possible to restructure this sentence in the following way; “I do not pray for the people of the world; rather, I pray for the people you gave me, because they belong to you.”
Because they belong to you explains why Jesus prays for the disciples. How is it possible to reconcile the fact that Jesus does not pray for “the world” and the fact that God loved “the world” and gave his Son (3.16)? According to Johannine theology, the coming of the Son into “the world” is not only the means whereby “the world” is saved, but also the means by which it is judged. So “the world” consists of those people who refuse Jesus and align themselves with the power of Satan. From the viewpoint of Johannine theology, there is no hope of salvation for “the world”; the only hope is that “the world” will be proved wrong and defeated. However, even though “the world” is hostile to Jesus and his followers, the precise reason for the disciples’ existence in “the world” is that they may proclaim the message of salvation to “the world.” In the same way that the presence of Jesus brought either salvation or judgement, so will the word of the disciples. Those who believe will also become Jesus’ disciples, while those who will not believe remain as part of “the world” in opposition to God. The last part of this verse is similar to part of verse 6 (they belonged to you, and you gave them to me).
Relating the clause because they belong to you to what precedes presents a problem. A literal rendering of verse 9 may suggest that God gave these people to Jesus, because they already belonged to God, but that is not the meaning in this passage. Because they belong to you must be directly related to the prayer. It may be necessary to say, for example, “I pray for them because they belong to you.”
Quoted with permission from Newman, Barclay M. and Nida, Eugene A. A Handbook on the Gospel of John. (UBS Handbook Series). New York: UBS, 1980. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .
Paragraph 17:9–12
Jesus asked God to protect his disciples from Satan.
17:9a
I ask on their behalf: This clause indicates that Jesus was praying to God for the benefit of his 11 disciples. Here are other ways to translate this clause:
I am praying for them (English Standard Version)
-or-
I pray for them (God’s Word)
-or-
I am praying ⌊to you (sing.)⌋ to help them
on their behalf: This phrase means “for their benefit.” Jesus prayed for God to help and bless his 11 disciples with him. These disciples are the ones he has prayed for since verse 6. It may be natural to make explicit whom the possessive pronoun their refers to. It refers to those whom God had given Jesus, his disciples, who had believed his message (17:6a–8d). The Greek text emphasizes this phrase to contrast it with “on behalf of the world” in 17:9b, which the Greek also emphasizes. For example:
for these ⌊my disciples/followers⌋
17:9b
I do not ask on behalf of the world: At this point, Jesus was praying for his disciples, not unbelievers. The Greek text emphasizes the phrase on behalf of the world to contrast it with “on their behalf” in 17:9a. For example:
I am not praying for the world (Revised English Bible)
-or-
I do not pray for the world (Good News Translation)
-or-
Who I am praying-for, it is not those who don’t believe in me (Kankanaey Back Translation)
the world: This phrase here refers to people who love and belong to the world and not to Christ. See the notes on the world in 1:10, 8:23, and 15:18–19. For example:
those who belong to this world (Contemporary English Version)
-or-
the people who do not believe in me (Western Bukidnon Manobo Back Translation)
General Comment on 17:9a–b
In some languages it may be natural to translate 17:9a–b as one main clause with one verb. For example:
I am praying for them, but not for those who belong to this world (Contemporary English Version)
-or-
I am not praying for the people of this ⌊evil⌋ world but for these ⌊my disciples⌋ .
17:9c
but: The Greek conjunction that the Berean Standard Bible translates as but here connects a negative statement (17:9b) to a positive statement (17:9c). This kind of sentence emphasizes the positive statement. Languages have different ways to indicate this type of emphasis. Here are some ways to show the emphasis:
• Use the conjunction but as in the Berean Standard Bible.
I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me (English Standard Version)
• Use a conjunction other than but. This is a common way in English to show this type of emphasis. For example:
I am not asking for the benefit of ⌊unbelievers⌋ ; rather, for the benefit of the ones you gave me.
• Do not use a conjunction. For example:
I do not ask this favor for all the people who live on earth. Those whom you delivered over to me are those I ask you to care for (Otomi Back Translation)
You should translate this emphasis in the way that is most natural in your language.
on behalf of those You have given Me: This expression repeats and emphasizes what Jesus said in 17:9a. See how you translated the similar expression there.
those You have given Me: This clause refers to Jesus’ disciples, the same people referred to in 17:6a. See the note there and how you translated the same clause. For example:
whom you entrusted to me (Kankanaey Back Translation)
17:9d
for they are Yours: This clause means “because they belong to you.” This clause gives the reason that Jesus was praying to God for his disciples. Jesus was praying to God for his disciples because they belonged to God. The Greek text emphasizes the word Yours. See how you translated a similar clause in 17:6b. Here are other ways to translate this clause:
because they belong to you (New Living Translation (2004))
-or-
My followers belong to you (Contemporary English Version)
-or-
because it is you to whom they belong
General Comment on 17:9c–d
In some languages it may be natural to reverse the order of 17:9c–d. For example:
9d My followers belong to you, 9c and I am praying for them. (Contemporary English Version)
General Comment on 17:9a–d
In some languages it may be confusing for Jesus to pray for the disciples, then the world, and then the disciples again. If that is true in your language, it may be natural to rearrange the order of 17:9a–d. For example:
9a I pray for these ⌊people⌋ 9c that you have given me 9d because they belong to you. 9b I do not pray for the ⌊people of the⌋ world.
-or-
9b I do not pray for the ⌊people of the⌋ world. 9a Instead I pray for those 9c that you have given me 9d because they are yours.
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