34He called the crowd with his disciples and said to them, “If any wish to come after me, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.
Following are a number of back-translations of Mark 8:34:
Uma: “After that Yesus called the many people to gather together with him and his disciples. He said to them: ‘Who[ever] wants to follow me must release his won desires, and he must carry [on the shoulder] his cross–that means he must follow my commands even if it means his death. After that, he can/may follow me.” (Source: Uma Back Translation)
Yakan: “So-then Isa called to him the crowds and his disciples. He said to them, ‘If there is a person who wants to follow me, he has to follow my will/wish, not his will/wish. And he also has to carry the post for killing him, that means he submits to endure/suffer persecution and even die. Then he can follow me.” (Source: Yakan Back Translation)
Western Bukidnon Manobo: “And then Jesus called to him the people and his disciples and he said, ‘If there is one who wants to follow me, he must remove out of his mind the things he wants to do, and he must put his cross on his shoulder, which is to say, he must carry out my commands even if it leads to his death. Then he can follow me.” (Source: Western Bukidnon Manobo Back Translation)
Kankanaey: “Then Jesus called the many-people and his disciples and said to them, ‘Whoever wants to join me, he must turn-his-back-on himself and carry-on-his-shoulder his cross so that he will then go-with me.” (Source: Kankanaey Back Translation)
Tagbanwa: “Jesus caused the people and his disciples to come close and he spoke, saying, ‘Whoever really wants to follow/obey me, he must deliberately-forget his own will. It’s like he will shoulder his own cross, for what he is now obeying is my will, even if it causes his life/breath to be severed.” (Source: Tagbanwa Back Translation)
Illustration by Horst Lemke (1922-1985) for the GermanGute Nachricht für Sie – NT68, one of the first editions of the Good News Bible in German of 1968. Lemke was a well-known illustrator who illustrated books by Erich Kästner , Astrid Lindgren and many others.
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Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.
One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the choice of a first person singular and plural pronoun (“I” and “we” and its various forms) as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. The most commonly used watashi/watakushi (私) is typically used when the speaker is humble and asking for help. In these verses, where God / Jesus is referring to himself, watashi is also used but instead of the kanji writing system (私) the syllabary hiragana (わたし) is used to distinguish God from others.
Click or tap here to see the rest of this insight.
Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.
One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the usage of an honorific construction where the morpheme are (され) is affixed on the verb as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. This is particularly done with verbs that have God as the agent to show a deep sense of reverence. Here, iw-are-ru (言われる) or “say” is used.
God transcends gender, but most languages are limited to grammatical gender expressed in pronouns. In the case of English, this is traditionally confined to “he” (or in the forms “his,” “him,” and “himself”), “she” (and “her,” “hers,” and “herself”), and “it” (and “its” and “itself”).
Modern Mandarin Chinese, however, offers another possibility. Here, the third-person singular pronoun is always pronounced the same (tā), but it is written differently according to its gender (他 is “he,” 她 is “she,” and 它/牠 is “it” and their respective derivative forms). In each of these characters, the first (or upper) part defines the gender (man, woman, or thing/animal), while the second element gives the clue to its pronunciation.
In 1930, after a full century with dozens of Chinese translations, Bible translator Wang Yuande (王元德) coined a new “godly” pronoun: 祂. Chinese readers immediately knew how to pronounce it: tā. But they also recognized that the first part of that character, signifying something spiritual, clarified that each person of the Trinity has no gender aside from being God.
While the most important Protestant and Catholic Chinese versions respectively have opted not to use 祂, some Bible translations do and it is widely used in hymnals and other Christian materials. Among the translations that use 祂 to refer to “God” were early versions of Lü Zhenzhong’s (呂振中) version (New Testament: 1946, complete Bible: 1970). R.P. Kramers (in The Bible Translator 1956, p. 152ff. ) explains why later versions of Lü’s translation did not continue with this practice: “This new way of writing ‘He,’ however, has created a minor problem of its own: must this polite form be used whenever Jesus is referred to? Lü follows the rule that, wherever Jesus is referred to as a human being, the normal tā (他) is written; where he is referred to as divine, especially after the ascension, the reverential tā (祂) is used.”
In that system, one kind of pronoun is used for humans (male and female alike) and others for natural elements, non-liquid masses, and some spiritual entities (one other is used for large animals and another one for miscellaneous items). While in these languages the pronoun for spiritual entities used to be employed when referring to God, this has changed into the use of the human pronoun.
Lynell Zogbo (in The Bible Translator 1989, p. 401ff. ) explains: “From informal discussions with young Christians especially, it would appear that, at least for some people, the experience and/or concepts of Christianity are affecting the choice of pronoun for God. Some people explain that God is no longer ‘far away,’ but is somehow tangible and personal. For these speakers God has shifted over into the human category.”
In Kouya, God (the Father) and Jesus are referred to with the human pronoun ɔ, whereas the Holy Spirit is referred to with a non-human pronoun. (Northern Grebo and Western Krahn make a similar distinction.)
Eddie Arthur, a former Kouya Bible translation consultant, says the following: “We tried to insist that this shouldn’t happen, but the Kouya team members were insistent that the human pronoun for the Spirit would not work.”
In Burmese, the pronoun ko taw (ကိုယ်တော်) is used either as 2nd person (you) or 3rd person (he, him, his) reference. “This term clearly has its root in the religious language in Burmese. No ordinary persons are addressed or known by this pronoun because it is reserved for Buddhist monks, famous religious teachers, and in the case of Christianity, the Trinity.” (Source: Gam Seng Shae in The Bible Translator 2002, p. 202ff. )
In Thai, the pronoun phra`ong (พระองค์) is used, a gender-neutral pronoun which must refer to a previously introduced royal or divine being. Similarly, in Northern Khmer, which is spoken in Thailand, “an honorific divine pronoun” is used for the pronoun referring to the persons of the Trinity (source: David Thomas in The Bible Translator 1993, p. 445 ). In Urak Lawoi’, another language spoken in Thailand, the translation often uses tuhat (ตูฮัด) — “God” — ”as a divine pronoun where Thai has phra’ong even though it’s actually a noun.” (Source for Thai and Urak Lawoi’: Stephen Pattemore)
The English “Contemporary Torah” addresses the question of God and gendered pronouns by mostly avoiding pronouns in the first five books of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament (unless God is referred to as “lord,” “father,” “king,” or “warrior”). It does that by either using passive constructs (“He gave us” vs. “we were given”), by using the adjective “divine” or by using “God” rather than a pronoun.
Some Protestant and Orthodox English Bibles use a referential capitalized spelling when referring to the persons of the Trinity with “He,” “His,” “Him,” or “Himself.” This includes for instance the New American Standard Bible or The Orthodox New Testament, but most translations do not. Two other languages where this is also done (in most Bible translations) are Twents as well as Indonesian and Malay. In the latter two languages this follows the language usage according to the Qur’an, which in turn predicts that usage (see Soesilo in The Bible Translator 1991, p. 442ff. and The Bible Translator 1997, p. 433ff. ).
Living Water is produced for the Bible translation movement in association with Lutheran Bible Translators. Lyrics derived from the ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®).
Instead of elthein ‘come’ of the majority of modern editions of the Greek text, Textus Receptus and Soden have akolouthein ‘follow.’
Exegesis:
proskalesamenos (cf. 3.13) ‘summoning,’ ‘calling to himself.’
ei tis thelei ‘if any one wants’: this meaning is to be preferred over Revised Standard Version ‘if any man would’ which may be understood as introducing an element of doubt or contingency not found in the Greek.
opisō mou elthein (cf. 1.20) ‘come after me’ as a disciple.
aparnēsasthō heauton ‘he is to deny himself,’ ‘he must renounce himself,’ ‘he must give up all claims upon himself.’
aparneomai (14.30, 31, 72) ‘deny’: here with the idea of ‘renounce,’ ‘abjure.’
aratō ton stauron autou ‘he must take up his cross,’ i.e. ‘as a disciple of mine he must share my suffering and death.’ Where in current usage among Christians the phrase ‘take up one’s cross’ has come to mean simply to endure a petty burden or an unavoidable irritating inconvenience in daily living, some way should be found, if possible, of restoring the original shock and near brutality of the phrase. ‘To take up the cross’ meant to be crucified, to die in a most painful and shameful manner, as Jesus did.
stauros (15.21, 30, 32) ‘cross’: an instrument of punishment and death, usually an upright stake with a cross bar at the top, in the form of a T or dagger.
Translation:
The multitude with his disciples is in some languages ‘the crowd as well as his disciples’ or simply ‘the crowd and his disciples.’
Come after me must be understood in the sense of ‘follow as disciples’ or ‘accompany me’ (see 1.17).
Deny himself is without doubt one of the most difficult expressions in all of Mark to translate adequately. Unfortunately, too many people have taken this expression to mean ‘to deny oneself certain pleasures or objects,’ while actually the meaning is a denial of one’s own presumed prerogatives or personal interests. The different ways of expressing this concept in various languages are highly illuminating, e.g. ‘to not accept self’ (Tetelcingo Nahuatl), ‘to forget self’ (Amganad Ifugao, South Bolivian Quechua), ‘to have no regard for oneself’ (Barrow Eskimo), ‘not bother oneself about oneself’ (Toraja-Sa’dan), ‘to cover up oneself’ (Huautla Mazatec), ‘to not worship oneself’ (San Miguel El Grande Mixtec), ‘to stop doing what one’s own heart wants’ (Tzeltal), ‘to not belong to oneself any longer’ (Conob), ‘to let go that which he wants to do himself’ (Yaka), ‘says, I will not do just what I want to do’ (Cashibo-Cacataibo), ‘to let him say, I do not serve for anything,’ in the sense of having no personal value (Tzotzil), ‘to not do what is passing through his mind’ (Sapo), ‘to not take constant thought for himself’ (Central Mazahua), ‘to quit what he himself wants’ (Tabasco Chontal), ‘to undo one’s own way of thinking’ (Highland Totonac), ‘to put his own things down’ (Dan), ‘to despise himself’ (Kekchi), ‘to refuse himself’ (Kituba), ‘to turn his back on himself’ (Javanese), ‘to disobey himself,’ in the sense of denying one’s own wishes (Southern Bobo Madaré), ‘to leave himself at the side’ (Huastec), ‘to leave his own way’ (Chicahuaxtla Triqui), ‘to take his mind out of himself completely’ (Loma (Liberia)), ‘to say, I do not live for myself’ (Huanuco Quechua), and ‘to say No to oneself’ (Mitla Zapotec).
Take up is to ‘lift up and to carry.’ Where languages specify the manner of carrying, one may say ‘on the shoulder.’
For follow see above, and 1.17.
Quoted with permission from Bratcher, Robert G. and Nida, Eugene A. A Handbook on the Gospel of Mark. (UBS Handbook Series). New York: UBS, 1961. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .
Jesus spoke about what a person must do to be his disciple
In the preceding section Jesus was speaking to his disciples. In this section Jesus called the crowd of people who were there to come and listen to him also. So in these verses Jesus was speaking to the crowd, as well as to his disciples. This meant that most of the people to whom Jesus spoke were not his followers. Many of them may have been part of the people whom Jesus described in 8:38b as “this adulterous and sinful generation.”
The requirements for being/becoming a disciple are given in 8:34. The next verses (8:35–38) each explain why a person who wants to follow Christ must obey the commands given in 8:34. Each reason involves a choice between the present and the future. A person who chooses to avoid death and shame in the present life will be shamed in the future at the final judgment. He will forfeit true life with God. By contrast, a person who chooses to follow Christ may lose his present life but he will gain true life with God.
It is good to translate this section before you decide on a heading for it.
Here are some other possible headings for this section:
Jesus told people how to be his true disciples -or-
What It Means to Follow Jesus (God’s Word) -or-
Following Jesus (NET Bible)
There are parallel passages for this section in Matthew 16:24–28 and Luke 9:23–27. See also Luke 14:27, 17:33; John 12:25.
Paragraph 8:34–9:1
8:34a
Then: The Greek conjunction that the Berean Standard Bible translates as Then and the Revised Standard Version as “And” here introduces the next event in the story. After Jesus spoke to his disciples, he called the crowd to him. Connect 8:34a to 8:33 in a way that is natural in your language.
Jesus called the crowd to Him along with His disciples: Jesus called the crowd of people to come closer to him and join the disciples. He did this so that they could clearly hear what he wanted to tell them. Remember that Jesus’ disciples were already near him in 8:33.
the crowd: This is the first time that the crowd is mentioned in this section. Apparently there was a large group of people nearby who wanted to hear what Jesus said. Introduce the crowd in a natural way for your language.
His disciples: See how you translated disciples in 2:15b and 8:33a. See also disciple in the Glossary.
8:34b–38
In these verses Jesus talked about anyone and everyone who wanted to be his disciple. Indicate this in a natural way in your language. In some languages it may be more natural to use a different subject than the Berean Standard Bible does. Here are examples from 8:34b–c:
If people want to follow me, they must give up the things they want. (New Century Version) -or-
If any of you want to be my followers, you must forget about yourself. (Contemporary English Version)
8:34b
If anyone wants to come after Me: The Greek phrase that the Berean Standard Bible translates as If anyone wants to come after Me is literally “If anyone desires after me to follow.” It refers to anyone who wanted to follow Jesus as his disciple.
Here are some other ways to translate this phrase:
If any want to become my followers (New Revised Standard Version) -or-
Anyone who desires/decides to be my disciple
Another form of the word “follow” is used in 8:34d.
wants: The Greek verb that the Berean Standard Bible translates as wants means “desires to,” “wishes to” or “wants to.” In this context, it may imply “truly wants to.”
8:34c–d
he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me: The Greek phrases that the Berean Standard Bible translates as mustdeny himself and take up his cross and follow Me are three indirect commands. A person who desires to be one of Jesus’ disciples must do three things:
(a) He must deny himself,
(b) he must take up his cross, and
(c) he must follow Jesus as a disciple.
Indicate in a natural way in your language that a person must do each of these actions in order to be a follower of Jesus. (There are differences of interpretation here that are not reflected in English versions. For example: 1) The phrase “take up his cross and follow me” can mean “be ready to suffer and follow me to death.” Notice that this view does not interpret the last verb “follow” as an actual action but a readiness for that action. 2) The phrase “and follow me” is a reason for the suffering, e.g. TRT: “willing/ready to suffer and even die for following Me” (page 107)These two views contrast with the view taken in these notes that there are three requirements for discipleship: self-denial, willingness to die, and obedience or continued following (see also Luke 9:23). )
8:34c
he must deny himself: The Greek phrase that the Berean Standard Bible translates literally as deny himself means “reject oneself.” A disciple must do what his master wants him to do, whether or not it is what the disciple himself wants to do. Disciples of Jesus must give up the right to fulfill their own ambitions.
Here are some other ways to translate deny himself:
forget yourself (Good News Bible) -or-
put aside your selfish ambition (New Living Translation, 1996 edition) -or-
renounce self (Revised English Bible) -or-
refuse his own desires
8:34d
take up his cross: The phrase take up his cross refers to the way that Roman soldiers executed criminals. They forced a condemned criminal to pick up a large wooden cross. He had to carry it to the place where he would be put to death. Then the soldiers nailed him on the cross to die.
When Jesus used this phrase, he knew that the Romans would soon force him to carry a literal cross. But in this context, he used the phrase figuratively. Jesus meant that anyone who wanted to become his disciple had to be willing to suffer and die in order to obey him. (This is the predominant view among the commentators. However, in his comment on Luke 9:23, which has “take up his cross daily,” Marshall (page 373) advances another view, which makes a lot of sense in light of Paul’s concept of dying to self. He says that a person who picked up his cross was already condemned to die. He knew he was as good as dead. So what Jesus means is that a disciple must daily reckon himself to be dead and follow/obey his master’s desires, not his own.)
Here are some other ways to translate the phrase take up his cross:
• Translate the figure of speech literally and add a footnote that explains the meaning. Here is a sample footnote:
In the time of Jesus, a person who was condemned to be nailed to a cross was forced to carry the cross. He carried it to the place where he would be nailed to it. So what Jesus means here is that a person who wants to be his follower must be ready to suffer and die in order to follow Jesus.
• Omit the figure of speech and translate the meaning directly. For example, the TRT says:
be willing/ready to suffer and even die
If you follow this option, consider adding a footnote that gives Jesus’ literal words.
cross: A cross refers to two large wooden boards or beams that were attached to each other. Roman soldiers used crosses to kill criminals. They nailed or tied a criminal to these wooden beams, then set them upright. They did this in order to cause the criminal to die slowly and painfully.
The word cross comes from the fact that the beams were crossed and attached. This made the shape of a or (or sometimes a ).
In many languages there may be no word for cross. If that is true in your language, you may need to use a descriptive phrase. For example:
board/wood of death -or-
crossed-beam(s) of death -or-
a tree for killing people -or-
a stake/plank to which they fasten/nail someone to kill him
follow Me: The Greek phrase that the Berean Standard Bible translates as follow Me indicates that a person who wants to become a disciple must actually start following Jesus as a disciple. He must continually obey Jesus as his master.
Refer to the note on 8:34d. See also the note on “follow me” in 1:17a.
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All Scripture quotations in this publication, unless otherwise indicated, are from The Holy Bible, Berean Standard Bible.
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