Like many languages (but unlike Greek or Hebrew or English), Tuvan uses a formal vs. informal 2nd person pronoun (a familiar vs. a respectful “you”). Unlike other languages that have this feature, however, the translators of the Tuvan Bible have attempted to be very consistent in using the different forms of address in every case a 2nd person pronoun has to be used in the translation of the biblical text.
As Voinov shows in Pronominal Theology in Translating the Gospels (in: The Bible Translator2002, p. 210ff. ), the choice to use either of the pronouns many times involved theological judgment. While the formal pronoun can signal personal distance or a social/power distance between the speaker and addressee, the informal pronoun can indicate familiarity or social/power equality between speaker and addressee.
Here, Jesus is addressing his disciples, individuals and/or crowds with the formal pronoun, showing respect.
In Nepali translations, Jesus addresses his disciples and other people with the medium honorific pronoun timīlē (तिमीले) or timīlēharū (तिमीलेहरू). His disciples respond with a high honorific pronoun. (Source: Chitra Chhetri in The Bible Translator 2009, p. 73ff. )
In most Dutch translations, Jesus addresses his disciples and common people with the informal pronoun, whereas they address him with the formal form.
Many languages distinguish between inclusive and exclusive first-person plural pronouns (“we”). (Click or tap here to see more details)
The inclusive “we” specifically includes the addressee (“you and I and possibly others”), while the exclusive “we” specifically excludes the addressee (“he/she/they and I, but not you”). This grammatical distinction is called “clusivity.” While Semitic languages such as Hebrew or most Indo-European languages such as Greek or English do not make that distinction, translators of languages with that distinction have to make a choice every time they encounter “we” or a form thereof (in English: “we,” “our,” or “us”).
For this verse, translators typically select the exclusive form (excluding Jesus).
Source: Velma Pickett and Florence Cowan in Notes on Translation January 1962, p. 1ff.
Following are a number of back-translations of John 8:39:
Uma: “The Yahudi people said: ‘Our(excl.) father is Abraham!’ Yesus said: ‘If you are truly descendants of Abraham, certainly you follow his behavior.” (Source: Uma Back Translation)
Yakan: “The Yahudi said, ‘Our (excl.) father is Ibrahim.’ Isa said, ‘If you were truly descendants of Ibrahim, you would resemble Ibrahim in his deeds.” (Source: Yakan Back Translation)
Western Bukidnon Manobo: “And they answered, ‘Our ancestor is Abraham.’ And Jesus said, ‘I wish that you were true descendants of Abraham because then you would do what Abraham did long ago.” (Source: Western Bukidnon Manobo Back Translation)
Kankanaey: “Upon which the Jews said, ‘It is indeed Abraham who is our (excl.) father.’ But Jesus answered, ‘If it is the-case that you are children of Abraham, you would follow what he did.” (Source: Kankanaey Back Translation)
Tagbanwa: “The Judio again replied, saying, ‘Abraham is the one who is our (excl.) father.’ ‘Well, if your father is Abraham,’ said Jesus, ‘well why are you deviating from his actions?” (Source: Tagbanwa Back Translation)
Tenango Otomi: “Then the people said, ‘Our father is Abraham.’ Jesus said, ‘If it was Abraham who was your father, you would do just as Abraham did.” (Source: Tenango Otomi Back Translation)
The name that is transliterated as “Abraham” in English means “father of a multitude,” “father of mercy,” “father of many nations.” (Source: Cornwall / Smith 1997 )
In the vast majority of sign languages, including American Sign Language it is translated with the sign signifying “hold back arm” (referring to Genesis 22:12).
In Vietnamese (Hanoi) Sign Language it is translated with a sign for that demonstrates his new destiny. Previously, he had been called to wander from his home, and the name “Abram” reflected this movement (see here). The new sign name is in one location and stays there, showing Abraham will be given a land to call his own. At this time, Abraham was in the southern part of Canaan, which is shown on the base arm by the location near the elbow. (Source: The Vietnamese Sign Language translation team, VSLBT)
“Abraham” in Vietnamese Sign Language, source: SooSL
In Tira it is transliterated as Abaram. The choice of this, rather than the widely-known “Ibrahim,” as used in the Tira translation of the Qu’ran, was to offset it against the Muslim transliteration which originates from Arabic. (Source: J.A. Naudé, C.L. Miller Naudé, J.O. Obono in Acta Theologica 43/2, 2023, p. 129ff. )
Click or tap here to see two short video clips about Abraham (source: Bible Lands 2012)
Click or tap here to see the rest of this insight.
Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.
One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the usage of an honorific construction where the morpheme are (され) is affixed on the verb as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. This is particularly done with verbs that have God as the agent to show a deep sense of reverence. Here, iw-are-ru (言われる) or “say” is used.
Click or tap here to see the rest of this insight.
Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.
One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the choice of a formal plural suffix to the second person pronoun (“you” and its various forms) as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. In these verses, anata-gata (あなたがた) is used, combining the second person pronoun anata and the plural suffix -gata to create a formal plural pronoun (“you” [plural] in English).
They answered him is literally “they answered and said to him” reflecting a Semitic Greek style that is redundant in English.
Our father is Abraham must be rendered in some languages as “our forefather is Abraham” or, possibly, “our forefather was Abraham.” Since, however, the term Abraham might be understood as the given in formation, the components of this equational sentence may be reversed in some languages as “Abraham was our forefather.”
In Greek, conditional clauses (“if” clauses) may be so stated as to indicate that the condition is either true or is contrary to fact. Sometimes these clauses are greatly mixed with the result that an even greater vividness is achieved, as in the Greek text followed by Good News Translation. Here the Greek conditional sentence is of a “mixed” type, so that the force is If you really were Abraham’s children, rather than simply “if you were Abraham’s children.” Two important Greek manuscripts have an imperative in the conclusion of this if clause, which results in the reading, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the same works that he did.” Moffatt accepts the imperative as the better choice of text, and this possibility is given by Good News Translation and New English Bible in a footnote as an alternative rendering. However, it is more logical to assume that the imperative was introduced by ancient scribes who attempted to do away with the grammatical difficulties of the mixed type of conditional clause. For this reason the UBS Committee on the Greek text gives its primary support to the reading followed by Good News Translation, though evaluating their choice as “C,” indicating considerable doubt regarding the original reading of the text.
To indicate clearly that a condition is contrary to fact, it may be necessary in some languages to employ a supplementary clause, for example, “If you were Abraham’s children—and obviously you are not—you would do the same things that he did.”
You would do the same things that he did may be translated “you would work in the same way that he did” or “you would behave as he behaved.” It is obviously necessary in this type of expression to avoid a term which would apply merely to physical labor. Customary behavior, rather than physical labor, is meant in this context.
Quoted with permission from Newman, Barclay M. and Nida, Eugene A. A Handbook on the Gospel of John. (UBS Handbook Series). New York: UBS, 1980. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .
In this section Jesus continued to speak to those who did not believe in him. Although they said that they were Abraham’s children and that God was their Father, they did not do what those people would. They did not accept Jesus’ teaching and wanted to kill him. So he said that their real father was the devil, who was a murderer and a liar.
They replied that he was a Samaritan and had a demon. Jesus denied that and said that if they accepted what he said, they would never die. They said that Abraham died and asked if he was greater than him. Jesus replied that he knew Abraham and existed before him. Then they wanted to throw stones at Jesus, but he hid.
Here are some other possible section headings:
Those who rejected Jesus had the devil for a father
-or-
Jesus existed before Abraham
Paragraph 8:39–41
The people who had recently believed in Jesus were Jewish and therefore said that they were Abraham’s children. Jesus said that their actions proved that what they said was false.
8:39a
Abraham is our father:Abraham was the ancestor of the people of Israel. The Jewish people were all descended from him. Jesus’ opponents believed that just because they were descended from Abraham, they were God’s people, members of God’s family.
our father: The pronoun our is probably exclusive here. The Jewish leaders were contrasting themselves with Jesus. They did not know or care who his father was. The word father here means “ancestor” or “forefather.” If the word father confuses people, you may use the word “ancestor.” For example:
Abraham is our ancestor/forefather
they replied: The pronoun they continues to refer to the Jewish leaders who were Jesus’ opponents. (See the note at 8:33a. The pronoun they is not made clear until 8:48.) In some languages it may be natural to make explicit who the pronoun they refers to and to whom they were speaking. For example:
The Jewish leaders answered Jesus
General Comment on 8:39a
Place the speech introducer where it is natural in your language. For example:
They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” (New Revised Standard Version)
8:39b
If you were children of Abraham…you would do the works of Abraham: There is a textual issue in this verse.
(1) Some Greek manuscripts have If you were…you would do This indicates that the Jewish leaders were not truly Abraham’s children, and they did not do what Abraham did. For example:
If you really were…you would do (Good News Translation)
(Berean Standard Bible, English Standard Version, King James Version, New International Version, Revised Standard Version, Contemporary English Version, God’s Word, New Living Translation (2004), Good News Translation, Revised English Bible, New Century Version)
(2) Other Greek manuscripts have “If you are…then do.” The second verb is a command. For example:
If you are Abraham’s children, do as Abraham did. (New Jerusalem Bible)
(New American Standard Bible, New Jerusalem Bible)
It is recommended that you follow option (1) because most English translations follow it. However, if the major language translation in your area follows option (2), you may want to follow that instead. The UBS Handbook Handbook Greek New Testament gives option (1) a C rating, which indicates much doubt.
In option (1), Jesus said that the religious leaders were not Abraham’s children (descendants). This was shown by their behavior. They did not act like Abraham. They were, of course, descended from Abraham in the physical and biological sense. But they were not his “true” sons in the sense of being like him, similar to him in character and faith. Here are other ways to translate these clauses:
if you were really the children of Abraham, you would do the things Abraham did (New Century Version)
-or-
if you were really the children of Abraham, you would follow his example (New Living Translation (2004))
-or-
if in fact you were true sons of Abraham, you would show it by acting/behaving like him
If you used a word like “ancestor” in 8:39a, you will probably want to use a word like “descendants” here instead of children. For example:
if you were really Abraham’s descendants, you would do what Abraham did
said Jesus: Again place this quote introducer where it is natural in your language. For example:
“If you were Abraham’s children,” Jesus said, “then you would do the things Abraham did.” (New International Version)
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