formal pronoun: Jesus addressing his disciples and common people

Like many languages (but unlike Greek or Hebrew or English), Tuvan uses a formal vs. informal 2nd person pronoun (a familiar vs. a respectful “you”). Unlike other languages that have this feature, however, the translators of the Tuvan Bible have attempted to be very consistent in using the different forms of address in every case a 2nd person pronoun has to be used in the translation of the biblical text.

As Voinov shows in Pronominal Theology in Translating the Gospels (in: The Bible Translator 2002, p. 210ff. ), the choice to use either of the pronouns many times involved theological judgment. While the formal pronoun can signal personal distance or a social/power distance between the speaker and addressee, the informal pronoun can indicate familiarity or social/power equality between speaker and addressee.

Here, Jesus is addressing his disciples, individuals and/or crowds with the formal pronoun, showing respect.

In Nepali translations, Jesus addresses his disciples and other people with the medium honorific pronoun timīlē (तिमीले) or timīlēharū (तिमीलेहरू). His disciples respond with a high honorific pronoun. (Source: Chitra Chhetri in The Bible Translator 2009, p. 73ff. )

In most Dutch translations, Jesus addresses his disciples and common people with the informal pronoun, whereas they address him with the formal form.

See also formal 2nd person plural pronoun (Japanese).

complete verse (John 7:8)

Following are a number of back-translations of John 7:8:

  • Uma: “You go ahead going to that feast. As for me, I will not yet go, because my time has not yet come.'” (Source: Uma Back Translation)
  • Yakan: “You go to Awrusalam to the festival,’ said Isa to his brothers. ‘I am not yet going because my time has not yet come.'” (Source: Yakan Back Translation)
  • Western Bukidnon Manobo: “You go ahead to the feast. I will not yet go there because the time for my going there has not yet arrived.'” (Source: Western Bukidnon Manobo Back Translation)
  • Kankanaey: “Go then attend-the-fiesta. I however will not go-along because the proper time-for-me-to-fulfill God’s plan is not yet,'” (Source: Kankanaey Back Translation)
  • Tagbanwa: “You go ahead and join in the fiesta. As for me, not yet, for like I said, not yet now is the time given to me.'” (Source: Tagbanwa Back Translation)
  • Tenango Otomi: “Go to the celebration now. I am not going because the time hasn’t come for me to go yet.'” (Source: Tenango Otomi Back Translation)

1st person pronoun referring to God (Japanese)

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Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.

One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the choice of a first person singular and plural pronoun (“I” and “we” and its various forms) as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. The most commonly used watashi/watakushi (私) is typically used when the speaker is humble and asking for help. In these verses, where God / Jesus is referring to himself, watashi is also used but instead of the kanji writing system (私) the syllabary hiragana (わたし) is used to distinguish God from others.

(Source: S. E. Doi, see also S. E. Doi in Journal of Translation, 18/2022, p. 37ff. )

See also pronoun for “God”.

formal 2nd person plural pronoun (Japanese)

Click or tap here to see the rest of this insight.

Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.

One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the choice of a formal plural suffix to the second person pronoun (“you” and its various forms) as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. In these verses, anata-gata (あなたがた) is used, combining the second person pronoun anata and the plural suffix -gata to create a formal plural pronoun (“you” [plural] in English).

(Source: S. E. Doi, see also S. E. Doi in Journal of Translation, 18/2022, p. 37ff. )

Translation commentary on John 7:8

In the first sentence of this verse you is emphatic, and in the second sentence I is emphatic. Both sentences use the same main verb. In the first sentence Good News Translation translates it go on and in the second sentence going. The verb literally means “to go up” and was normally used of the pilgrimage up to Jerusalem. However, some commentators see here a play on words, since Jesus uses this same verb to speak of his ascent to the Father (20.17 I have not yet gone back up to the Father).

As Good News Translation points out in a footnote, some Greek manuscripts read “I am not yet going.” Although many manuscripts have this reading, “not yet” was evidently introduced into the text to resolve the inconsistency between verses 8 and 10. The force of Jesus’ words here is that he acts solely on the basis of God’s will, not on the suggestions or commands of any human being. Parallels are to be found at 2.4 and 11.6, where Jesus also rejects human authority for what he does.

In because the right time has not come the verb not come is not the same verb, so translated in verse 6. However, the meaning is essentially the same.

Quoted with permission from Newman, Barclay M. and Nida, Eugene A. A Handbook on the Gospel of John. (UBS Handbook Series). New York: UBS, 1980. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .

SIL Translator’s Notes on John 7:8

7:8a

Go up to the feast on your own: The subject of this clause (you, plural) is implied in English. However, the Greek text emphasizes it, and the English emphasizes the idea with on your own. This emphasizes the contrast with the subject “I” in 7:8b, which the Greek also emphasizes.

The phrase the feast refers to the feast of Booths or Tabernacles. See how you translated this term in 7:2. Jesus was encouraging his brothers to leave Galilee and celebrate this feast in Jerusalem without him. Here is another way to translate this clause:

You go on/ahead to the feast.

Go up: The verb that the Berean Standard Bible translates as Go up refers to the fact that the city of Jerusalem was built on a hill. Anyone going to the city had to walk up the hill to a place that was higher up. This expression was therefore a way of referring to a pilgrimage (a journey with a religious purpose). See the note at 2:13, and see how you translated this term there.

7:8b

I am not going up to this feast: There is a textual issue here:

(1) Some Greek manuscripts include a word that means not. For example:

I am not going (Good News Translation)

(Berean Standard Bible, Contemporary English Version, NET Bible Bible, Revised English Bible, Good News Translation, New Living Translation (2004), English Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, Revised Standard Version, New Jerusalem Bible)

(2) Some Greek manuscripts include a word that means “not yet.” For example:

I will not go yet to this feast (New Century Version)

(King James Version, New International Version, New Century Version, God’s Word)

It is recommended that you follow option (1) because most English translations follow it. However in this context the meaning is almost the same, as is implied by the following clause. If the major language translation in your area follows option (2), you may choose to follow it. It may also be possible to indicate Jesus’ meaning by saying the following:

I am not going with you.

See also the General Comment on 7:8b–c for a way to reorder these clauses.

going up: The verb going up is from the same Greek verb as in 7:8a.

7:8c

because: The conjunction because introduces the reason Jesus did not want to go to the festival at that time.

Here is another way to translate this word:

for (New Revised Standard Version)

My time has not yet come: Jesus again said that his time had not yet fully (completely) come. As in 7:6a, it is not clear what he meant by that statement. So again it is recommended that you do not explain what he meant. See the note on 7:6a. Here are other ways to translate this clause:

for me the right time has not yet come (NIV93)
-or-
for it is not yet time for me to go (Phillips’ New Testament in Modern English)

My time: The Greek phrase that the Berean Standard Bible translates as My time means “my opportunity” or “the right time for me.” For example:

the right time has not come for me (Good News Translation)

has not yet come: The Greek verb that the Berean Standard Bible translates as has not yet come is different from the verb in 7:6a but means the same thing. Here are other ways to translate this phrase:

is not quite yet
-or-
is not now

General Comment on 7:8b–c

In some languages it may be natural to reverse the order of 7:8b–c. That would imply that Jesus would go to the festival when it was the right time. For example:

8c My time hasn’t yet come, 8b and I am not going. (Contemporary English Version)
-or-

8c This is not the right time for me, 8b and so I am not going ⌊with you⌋ .

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