complete verse (Mark 8:11)

Following are a number of back-translations of Mark 8:11:

  • Uma: “Several Parisi people came to Yesus, and they began to argue with him, wanting to tempt him. They said to him: ‘Do an amazing sign so that we (excl.) will clearly know that you are from God.'” (Source: Uma Back Translation)
  • Yakan: “When Isa and his disciples arrived at Dalmanuta, the Pariseo went to him to involve him in an argument/discussion. They wanted to trap him, therefore they requested to be shown a sign if he truly had authority from God.” (Source: Yakan Back Translation)
  • Western Bukidnon Manobo: “And when they had arrived, the Pharisee people went to Jesus and began to argue with him. They told him to show a miracle as a sign that he was sent by God. The reason they said this was because they will test him.” (Source: Western Bukidnon Manobo Back Translation)
  • Kankanaey: “There were some Pharisees who went to Jesus. They wanted to test him, therefore they began to argue while-simultaneously requesting that he show an amazing sign that God was the one-who-sent him.” (Source: Kankanaey Back Translation)
  • Tagbanwa: “There were Pariseo who arrived challenging Jesus. They wanted to test Jesus, therefore they asked that he show them a sign to do with the sky/heaven.” (Source: Tagbanwa Back Translation)

pronoun for "God"

God transcends gender, but most languages are limited to grammatical gender expressed in pronouns. In the case of English, this is traditionally confined to “he” (or in the forms “his,” “him,” and “himself”), “she” (and “her,” “hers,” and “herself”), and “it” (and “its” and “itself”).

Modern Mandarin Chinese, however, offers another possibility. Here, the third-person singular pronoun is always pronounced the same (tā), but it is written differently according to its gender (他 is “he,” 她 is “she,” and 它/牠 is “it” and their respective derivative forms). In each of these characters, the first (or upper) part defines the gender (man, woman, or thing/animal), while the second element gives the clue to its pronunciation.

In 1930, after a full century with dozens of Chinese translations, Bible translator Wang Yuande (王元德) coined a new “godly” pronoun: 祂. Chinese readers immediately knew how to pronounce it: tā. But they also recognized that the first part of that character, signifying something spiritual, clarified that each person of the Trinity has no gender aside from being God.

While the most important Protestant and Catholic Chinese versions respectively have opted not to use 祂, some Bible translations do and it is widely used in hymnals and other Christian materials. Among the translations that use 祂 to refer to “God” were early versions of Lü Zhenzhong’s (呂振中) version (New Testament: 1946, complete Bible: 1970). R.P. Kramers (in The Bible Translator 1956, p. 152ff. ) explains why later versions of Lü’s translation did not continue with this practice: “This new way of writing ‘He,’ however, has created a minor problem of its own: must this polite form be used whenever Jesus is referred to? Lü follows the rule that, wherever Jesus is referred to as a human being, the normal tā (他) is written; where he is referred to as divine, especially after the ascension, the reverential tā (祂) is used.”

In Kouya, Godié, Northern Grebo, Eastern Krahn, Western Krahn, and Guiberoua Béte, all languages of the Kru family in Western Africa, a different kind of system of pronouns is used (click or tap here to read more):

In that system, one kind of pronoun is used for humans (male and female alike) and others for natural elements, non-liquid masses, and some spiritual entities (one other is used for large animals and another one for miscellaneous items). While in these languages the pronoun for spiritual entities used to be employed when referring to God, this has changed into the use of the human pronoun.

Lynell Zogbo (in The Bible Translator 1989, p. 401ff. ) explains: “From informal discussions with young Christians especially, it would appear that, at least for some people, the experience and/or concepts of Christianity are affecting the choice of pronoun for God. Some people explain that God is no longer ‘far away,’ but is somehow tangible and personal. For these speakers God has shifted over into the human category.”

In Kouya, God (the Father) and Jesus are referred to with the human pronoun ɔ, whereas the Holy Spirit is referred to with a non-human pronoun. (Northern Grebo and Western Krahn make a similar distinction.)

Eddie Arthur, a former Kouya Bible translation consultant, says the following: “We tried to insist that this shouldn’t happen, but the Kouya team members were insistent that the human pronoun for the Spirit would not work.”

In Burmese, the pronoun ko taw (ကိုယ်တော်) is used either as 2nd person (you) or 3rd person (he, him, his) reference. “This term clearly has its root in the religious language in Burmese. No ordinary persons are addressed or known by this pronoun because it is reserved for Buddhist monks, famous religious teachers, and in the case of Christianity, the Trinity.” (Source: Gam Seng Shae in The Bible Translator 2002, p. 202ff. )

In Thai, the pronoun phra`ong (พระองค์) is used, a gender-neutral pronoun which must refer to a previously introduced royal or divine being. Similarly, in Northern Khmer, which is spoken in Thailand, “an honorific divine pronoun” is used for the pronoun referring to the persons of the Trinity (source: David Thomas in The Bible Translator 1993, p. 445 ). In Urak Lawoi’, another language spoken in Thailand, the translation often uses tuhat (ตูฮัด) — “God” — ”as a divine pronoun where Thai has phra’ong even though it’s actually a noun.” (Source for Thai and Urak Lawoi’: Stephen Pattemore)

The English “Contemporary Torah” addresses the question of God and gendered pronouns by mostly avoiding pronouns in the first five books of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament (unless God is referred to as “lord,” “father,” “king,” or “warrior”). It does that by either using passive constructs (“He gave us” vs. “we were given”), by using the adjective “divine” or by using “God” rather than a pronoun.

Some Protestant and Orthodox English Bibles use a referential capitalized spelling when referring to the persons of the Trinity with “He,” “His,” “Him,” or “Himself.” This includes for instance the New American Standard Bible or The Orthodox New Testament, but most translations do not. Two other languages where this is also done (in most Bible translations) are Twents as well as Indonesian and Malay. In the latter two languages this follows the language usage according to the Qur’an, which in turn predicts that usage (see Soesilo in The Bible Translator 1991, p. 442ff. and The Bible Translator 1997, p. 433ff. ).

See also first person pronoun referring to God.

Learn more on Bible Odyssey: Gender of God .

Translation: Chinese

在现代汉语中,第三人称单数代词的读音都是一样的(tā),但是写法并不一样,取决于性别以及是否有生命,即男性为“他”,女性为“她”,动物、植物和无生命事物为“它”(在香港和台湾的汉语使用,动物则为“牠”)。这些字的部首偏旁表明了性别(男人、女人、动物、无生命事物),而另一偏旁通常旁提示发音。

到1930年为止,基督教新教《圣经》经过整整一百年的翻译已经拥有了十几个译本,当时的一位圣经翻译者王元德新造了一个“神圣的”代词“祂”,偏旁“礻”表示神明。一般汉语读者会立即知道这字的发音是tā,而这个偏旁表示属灵的事物,因此他们明白这个字指出,三位一体的所有位格都没有性别之分,而单单是上帝。

然而,最重要的新教圣经译本(1919年的《和合本》)和天主教圣经译本(1968年的《思高圣经》)都没有采用“祂”;虽然如此,许多其他的圣经译本采用了这个字,另外还广泛出现在赞美诗和其他基督信仰的书刊中。(资料来源:Zetzsche)

《吕振中译本》的几个早期版本也使用“祂”来指称“上帝”;这个译本的《新约》于1946年译成,整部《圣经》于1970年完成。克拉默斯(Kramers)指出:“‘他’的这种新写法(即‘祂’)产生了一个小问题,就是在指称耶稣的时候,是否一律使用这个敬语代词?《吕振中译本》遵循的原则是,在称呼耶稣这个人的时候,用一般的‘他’,而在称呼耶稣神性的时候,特别是升天之后的耶稣,则用尊称‘祂’。”

Translator: Simon Wong

Translation commentary on Mark 8:11

Exegesis:

suzētein (cf. 1.27) ‘argue with,’ ‘debate,’ ‘dispute.’

zētountes par’ autou sēmeion apo tou ouranou ‘seeking from him a sign from heaven.’

zēteō (cf. 3.32) ‘ask,’ ‘request,’ ‘want.’

sēmeion (8.12, 14; 13.4, 22; 16.17, 20) ‘sign,’ i.e. ‘an outward (visible) indication of secret power or truth’ (Souter): in this context the ‘sign’ would be a wonder or miracle clearly of divine origin (apo tou ouranou ‘from heaven’).

peirazontes auton ‘testing him,’ ‘putting him to the test’: the participle may be understood as indicating purpose (Manson, Revised Standard Version, The Modern Speech New Testament, Le Nouveau Testament. Version Synodale, Zürcher Bibel), or attempt, ‘trying to test him’ (cf. Taylor).

peirazō (cf. 1.13) ‘test,’ ‘try’: here, as in 1.13, with a bad intent, and so ‘tempt.’

Translation:

Argue may be ‘to exchange words’ or ‘to speak against what he was saying.’

Seeking from him a sign from heaven may be ‘ask him to show them a sign from heaven’ or ‘wanted him to produce a sign from heaven.’

Though sign is used in the sense of ‘miracle’ or ‘mighty work,’ one should, if at all possible, try to reproduce the essential significance of the Greek term sēmeion which points to the meaningful character of an event or object (note the use of the root sēm- in the derivatives semantics and semiology). This then was to be more than a miracle; rather, it was to be a demonstration of power which would have special meaning for the people – in this instance his immediate opponents, the Pharisees. In order to convey this meaning various devices have been used, e.g. ‘a thing which shows’ (Tepeuxila Cuicatec), ‘supernatural power which shows,’ in which ‘shows’ does not mean ‘is visible,’ but ‘that which shows something else’ (Navajo), ‘events which tell people something’ (Uduk), ‘happenings which point out’ (Highland Puebla Nahuatl), ‘miracles which are to prove’ (or ‘to demonstrate’) (Western Highland Purepecha), ‘how one is going to know’ (Shipibo-Conibo).

From heaven is not always easily related to the preceding expression. If this clause has reference to a portent which shows from heaven (or the sky), that is one thing (and not very difficult to translate), but if the meaning is primarily a demonstration of divine power, then one may be required to say ‘wanted him to do a great work with power from heaven’ or ‘ask him to show that his power was from heaven.’

Test must not be translated in the sense of ‘tempt,’ with the connotation of ‘try to make sin.’ The meaning is more ‘so they could really test him’ or ‘so they could put him to the test.’

Quoted with permission from Bratcher, Robert G. and Nida, Eugene A. A Handbook on the Gospel of Mark. (UBS Handbook Series). New York: UBS, 1961. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .

SIL Translator's Notes on Mark 8:11

Section 8:11–13

The Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign from heaven

According to 8:10, Jesus and his disciples traveled in a boat to the region of Dalmanutha. Some time after they arrived, some Pharisees came to Jesus. We do not know the specific time or place. They demanded that he show them a sign from heaven, but Jesus refused and left their area.

It is good to translate this section before you decide on a heading for it.

Here are some other possible headings for this section:

The demand of the Pharisees for a sign from heaven
-or-
The Pharisees demand a miraculous sign

There is a parallel passage for this section in Matthew 16:1–4.

Paragraph 8:11–13

8:11a

Then: The Greek word that the Berean Standard Bible translates as Then introduces the next story. It is uncertain exactly when this story happened in relation to the previous story. (Mark 8:10 mentions that Jesus and the disciples went to Dalmanutha, and the parallel in Matthew also occurs in the section following Jesus’ arrival in Magadan (perhaps another name for Dalmanutha). However, Wessel (page 688), Hiebert (page 194) and Lane (page 276) all feel that there is no explicit connection. Gundry (page 401), Edwards (page 235) and France (page 311) understand Dalmanutha as the likely setting, but Hiebert (page 194) and Lenski (page 320) mention the possibility that the Pharisees had come from Capernaum or that Jesus had gone to Capernaum.) This may be the reason why many English versions do not translate this word here. If you need to make a time or place connection explicit in your language, try to use a general expression.

the Pharisees came: The phrase the Pharisees came indicates here that some of the Pharisees came to Jesus. It does not mean that all of the Pharisees came. In some languages it may be necessary to indicate this. For example, the Good News Bible says:

Some Pharisees came to Jesus

Pharisees: The Pharisees were a Jewish religious group or party. It was very important to them to obey all of the Jewish religious laws very carefully and in detail. Here are some ways to translate this word:

• Transliterate the word Pharisees according to the sounds of your language and indicate that it refers to people. For example:

Farisi members
-or-
Parise adherents

• Transliterate the word Pharisees and indicate that it refers to a group of people with certain beliefs. For example:

people belonging to the Farise religious sect/group
-or-
members of the religious group called the Farasi

You may also want to include an explanation of Pharisees in the glossary of your translation. Refer to how you translated Pharisees in 2:16a and 7:5a.

and began to argue with Jesus: The Greek word that the Berean Standard Bible translates as argue with means “question” or “debate” in this context. The Pharisees were opposed to Jesus. So they did not want information from him, and they did not want to have a friendly conversation with him.

Here are some other ways to translate argue with:

question (New International Version)
-or-
dispute (New King James Version)

8:11b

testing Him: The phrase testing Him indicates the purpose for the next clause. The Pharisees wanted to test Jesus. That is the reason they asked him to show them a sign. The Greek text places the purpose phrase at the end of this verse, as in the Revised Standard Version. Place it where it is natural in your language.

testing: The Greek word that the Berean Standard Bible translates as testing refers here to an attempt to cause someone to make a mistake, often by tricking him. In this context the Pharisees tried to cause Jesus to say or do something that would make the people think that he was not from God. Their purpose was to discredit Jesus so that people would not listen to him.

Here are some other ways to translate this:

Hoping to trap him…
-or-
They wanted to discredit him, so they…

demanding from Him a sign from heaven: The Greek verb that the Berean Standard Bible translates as demanding means “requesting.” It can be used for either a polite request or a demand. Use an appropriate verb in your language.

In some languages it may be necessary to express this request as a direct quote. For example, the New Living Translation, 1996 edition says:

…they demanded, “Give us a miraculous sign from heaven to prove yourself.”

a sign from heaven: The phrase a sign from heaven here means “a sign from God.” (Some commentaries (Lenski page 321, Gould page 144, etc.) interpret “from heaven” to mean “in the skies/space.” That is, the Pharisees were asking for a celestial phenomenon rather than a miracle on earth to serve as attestation that Jesus’ teaching came from God. No major English version explicitly follows this interpretation.) The Pharisees did not believe that Jesus had power from God. They asked him to do a special miracle to prove that his power came from God. They thought he would not be able to do this.

Here are some other ways to translate this:

a special miracle to show that his power came from God
-or-
a miracle to show that God approved of him (Good News Bible)

See heaven, Meaning 3, in the Glossary.

sign: The word sign refers to a miracle that has a meaning. In this context, the Pharisees wanted Jesus to perform a miracle that would prove that his power came from God.

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