Honorary "are" construct denoting God ("say")

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Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.

One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the usage of an honorific construction where the morpheme are (され) is affixed on the verb as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. This is particularly done with verbs that have God as the agent to show a deep sense of reverence. Here, iw-are-ru (言われる) or “say” is used.

(Source: S. E. Doi, see also S. E. Doi in Journal of Translation, 18/2022, p. 37ff. )

Translation commentary on John 12:34

The crowd answered is more literally “therefore (oun) the crowd answered him.”

Our Law tells us translates a false passive construction in Greek (“we heard from the Law”). Good News Translation makes it an active construction and specifies that the reference is to the Jewish (Our) Law. Our Law in this context is best understood as a reference to the entire Jewish Bible, not just to the section traditionally known as “the Law.” If any specific passage is in the minds of the people, it is probably Psalm 89, which both the New Testament (Acts 13.22; Rev 1.5; 3.14) and Jewish rabbinical sources interpret Messianically. For example, Psalm 89.36 states “his seed (= David’s descendant) remains forever,” while in verse 51 of that same Psalm interprets the “seed” as the Lord’s “anointed” (= the Messiah). However, it is impossible to be this precise; more than likely this teaching is a general conclusion derived from the total Old Testament.

In a number of languages it is not possible to say “our Law tells us,” for one cannot speak of a collection of ordinances as doing any kind of talking. But it is possible to say “in our laws we read that” or “from our laws we learn that.”

It should be noted that it is not Jesus, but the people who introduce the mention of the Son of Man. For the crowd, at least in this context, the Messiah is identified with the Son of Man. If the Messiah will live forever, how then can Jesus say that he will be lifted up (that is, be put to death)? Who is this Son of Man? may be taken either as a question regarding the identity of the Son of Man, or as one regarding his relation to the Messiah.

For languages in which the Son of Man is made specific with a first person reference when Jesus himself is speaking, it may be appropriate here to identify the Son of Man with a second person singular pronoun, for example, “you as the Son of Man.” However, if one uses this expression, the question which follows may seem strange, for Who is this Son of Man? seems to be asking about the identity of that person. One possible interpretation of the phrase Son of Man may be “What do you mean by the expression Son of Man?” However, real dangers are involved in attempting to be too specific, either in identifying the referent of the Son of Man in the first of the two questions, or in trying to suggest too clearly the relation between the phrase Son of Man and Messiah. Since the crowd was not certain of what was meant or intended, there is nothing wrong in leaving the questions somewhat obscure. In fact, introducing some measure of obscurity would be completely in keeping with this context.

Perhaps it should be noted that, whereas most translations render with the meaning will live forever, Die Bibel im heutigen Deutsch has “will remain with us forever.” This translation represents a slight shift in emphasis, and it seems that the interpretation of Good News Translation and most other translations is more in accord with what is meant in this particular passage. Here again Die Bibel im heutigen Deutsch translates “Messiah” by “the promised Savior,” which is a definite improvement over most other translations. (See comments at 1.20.)

Quoted with permission from Newman, Barclay M. and Nida, Eugene A. A Handbook on the Gospel of John. (UBS Handbook Series). New York: UBS, 1980. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .

SIL Translator’s Notes on John 12:34

Paragraph 12:34–36b

12:34a

The Greek text includes a word that indicates a return to the main story after the parenthetical comment in verse 33. Many English translations, including the Berean Standard Bible, do not translate this word. Others use parentheses in verse 33 to mark the beginning and end of the parenthetical comment. Indicate that this is a return to the main story in a way that is natural in your language.

The crowd replied: These words indicate that the crowd responded to Jesus’ statement. They responded by making a statement and then asking Jesus a rhetorical question.

We have heard from the Law: This expression introduces something the crowd had learned from their teachers. They had heard people preaching from the Hebrew Scriptures (our Old Testament) and saying that the Messiah would live forever. They understood that when Jesus called himself “Son of Man,” he was saying that he was the Messiah. But they did not understand how Jesus could be the Messiah and be “lifted up” (crucified). Here are other ways to translate this expression:

Our Law tells us (Good News Translation)
-or-
We understood from Scripture (New Living Translation (2004))
-or-
The Scriptures teach (Contemporary English Version)

We: The Greek text emphasizes this word. It refers to the crowd and to the Jewish people in general. Even though Jesus was also Jewish, the crowd emphasized the words We and “you,” which indicates a contrast. So the word We does not include Jesus and it is best to translate it as an exclusive pronoun.

the Law: This phrase often refers to the books of Moses, the five books from Genesis through Deuteronomy. Here, however, the people are thinking of the whole Old Testament. In some languages it is more natural to say that. For example:

We have heard from the Scriptures (God’s Word)

the Christ will remain forever: This clause indicates that the Christ, the Promised Savior, will never die. Here is another way to translate this clause:

the Messiah will live forever (Good News Translation)

the Christ: The Berean Standard Bible translates literally the Greek text as the Christ. The Jews used this title to refer to the special person whom God had appointed and promised to send as King and Savior. The title Christ is the Greek translation of the Hebrew word “Messiah,” so the two words have the same meaning: “anointed one.” See Key Biblical Terms, Christ, Messiah, 1a and 2. See how you translated Christ in 1:20 and 4:25. Because the Greek here is Christ, you may want to use that word here, as many English translations do.

General Comment on 12:34a

The crowd was not quoting a specific verse of Scripture. The verse that is the closest to what they say is Psalm 89:36, which says, “His line shall continue forever.” What they say here was just their general understanding of the teaching they had heard. It is probably best to leave this as an indirect quotation if possible. If it is necessary to use the form of a direct quotation, try to be as general as possible. For example:

We have heard that the Law says, “The Messiah shall continue forever.”

12:34b

So how can you say that the Son of Man must be lifted up?: This is a rhetorical question. It was used to emphasize that you cannot say that or possibly to confirm that you cannot say that. The people assumed that once the Messiah came he would live forever. They did not understand that there were other Scriptures that talked about his death. They did not think that the Messiah would die, so what Jesus said confused them.

There are at least two ways to translate this expression:

• Use a rhetorical question. For example:

So how can it be true that the Son of Man must be lifted up ⌊to die⌋ ’?
-or-
What do you mean by saying that the Son of Man must be lifted up? (Revised English Bible)

• Use a statement. For example:

We cannot understand why you say that the Son of Man must be lifted up ⌊to die⌋ .

you: The Greek text emphasizes the pronoun you. It is singular and refers to Jesus.

the Son of Man: The Greek phrase that the Berean Standard Bible translates as the Son of Man is more literally “the Son of the human/person.” Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man in 12:23. Jesus used this title to imply two things:

(a) He was a true human being, and he represented all people.

(b) He came from God and had authority from God.

Try to use an expression that implies both meanings and is the same as you used in 12:23. See also Key Biblical Terms Son of Man.

General Comment on 12:34b

This sentence includes an indirect quotation. In some languages it may be natural to translate it as direct speech. For example:

How can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? (NET Bible Bible)

12:34c

Who is this Son of Man?: This is a real question. If the Son of Man was the Messiah, the crowd did not understand how he could die. They were confused by what Jesus said and asked him to make things clear. They wanted to know who the Son of Man that Jesus talked about was, what kind of person he was. Here are other ways to translate this question:

Who is this Son of Man you are talking about? (New Living Translation (2004))
-or-
What kind of Son of Man is this?

Son of Man: Use the same expression that you used in 12:23 and 12:34b. If you made it clear that this refers to Jesus, it may not be possible to say “Who is this Son of Man?” It may be necessary to translate the question in a different way. For example:

What do you mean by ⌊the words/phrase⌋ Son of Man?
-or-
What does “Son of Man” mean?

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