forget

The Hebrew, Latin, Ge’ez, and Greek that is translated as “forget” in English is translated in Noongar as dwangka-anbangbat, lit. “ear-lose.” (Source: Portions of the Holy Bible in the Nyunga language of Australia, 2018).

See also remember and forget (Japanese honorifics).

complete verse (Ecclesiastes 2:16)

Following are a number of back-translations as well as a sample translation for translators of Ecclesiastes 2:16:

  • Kupsabiny: “Because a wise person will not be remembered, also a stupid person will not be remembered. Because when a stupid person dies, he is forgotten, also the wise person dies and is forgotten.” (Source: Kupsabiny Back Translation)
  • Newari: “For, like the foolish person, the wise person will also not be remembered for a long time.
    In the coming days both of them will be completely forgotten.
    For, like the fool, the one who has wisdom will also have to die.” (Source: Newari Back Translation)
  • Hiligaynon: “All of us (incl.), either wise or fool, will-die some-time-later, and both will-be-forgotten.’” (Source: Hiligaynon Back Translation)
  • English: “Wise people and foolish people all die.
    And after we die, we will all eventually be forgotten.’” (Source: Translation for Translators)

Translation commentary on Ecclesiastes 2:16

For of the wise man as of the fool: if the initial particle ki is translated For, then verse 16 provides the reason for the previous argument. But such a connection between verses 15 and 16 does not seem logical. It is probably best to understand verse 16 as providing the reader with yet another example of how the wise and fool are alike. This approach would better account for the repetition of the phrase “as of the wise man as of the fool.” For this reason we suggest the initial particle be translated as “Indeed,” or not translated at all, as in Good News Translation.

Remembrance or “memorial” can be applied to any material object or to any thought or notion that helps us recall what happened in the past. It may be directed toward God or people. Whether it is a physical memorial to what the sage achieved or some mental reflection on his achievements is difficult to determine. However, the point is clearly made: nobody remembers either the fool or the wise after they die. This is another aspect of the finality of death. Rather than use a noun remembrance or “memorial,” translators can use a verbal form, “not remembered,” or even “are forgotten.” The whole clause may say something like this: “Indeed, whether wise or foolish, people are forgotten for ever” or “Whether you are wise or foolish, nobody remembers you for long.”

Seeing that in the days to come all will have been long forgotten: this is a peculiar expression in Hebrew. The initial phrase seeing that is literally “in which already.” It is either a time phrase pointing back to something already done or an explanatory “because already.” However, it is followed by the “coming days,” referring to something future. In light of the Hebrew imperfect verb “will be forgotten,” we can assume that Qoheleth is speaking of the future. We may translate as “because we already know that in the future everything will be forgotten.” All in this clause is a general term, and we probably do not need to define it too closely. Almost certainly it refers to “both wise and fool.” Translators have the choice of using the more general “all” or “everything,” or naming the persons as “wise people and fools.”

How the wise man dies just like the fool! exclaims Qoheleth. This cry is similar to the idea found in verse 15, but for the first time the word “fate” is clearly identified as “death.” What does Qoheleth mean when he says that the wise dies … like the fool We need to ensure that readers do not think that the manner of death is the same. His point is simply that, whether a person is wise or foolish, there is no escape from death. A second meaning may also be present in the cry, in the sense that neither wise nor fool have any lasting memorial. The introductory How is a painful cry from Qoheleth as he meditates on this fact. It is a word we find often in the laments in Psalms (see Psa 73.11, 19; Lam 1.1; 2.1; 4.1, 2). New English Bible, Moffatt, Jerusalem Bible all use the word “Alas!” whereas New American Bible “How is it that…?” may sound more like a question than a painful cry of distress. Some languages will prefer an interjection of some kind to express this emotion. Our translation can make a clear reference to the pain of this situation by rendering it as “What a tragedy that the wise man’s death is no different from the fool’s!” “How awful that death makes no distinction between wise and foolish people!”

Quoted with permission from Ogden, Graham S. and Zogbo, Lynell. A Handbook on the Book of Ecclesiates. (UBS Helps for Translators). New York: UBS, 1997. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .

SIL Translator’s Notes on Ecclesiastes 2:16

2:16a For there is no lasting remembrance of the wise, just as with the fool,

This is so because no one remembers wise people or fools for very long.
-or-
Nobody remembers the wise or the fool for very long (FBV)
-or-
People soon forget the wise man just as they forget the fools.

2:16b seeing that both will be forgotten in the days to come.

It is already certain that in the future people will forget all about them.
-or-
In days to come, we will all be forgotten. (Good News Translation)
-or-
People will only too soon forget both, ⌊the wise and the foolish person, once they have died⌋ .

2:16c Alas, the wise man will die just like the fool!

How awful! Just like fools, wise people must die too.
-or-
Even wise men, like fools, must die in the end! (EASY2015)

2:16a-c (combined)

The wise person and the fool will both die, and no one will remember either one for long. In the future, both will be forgotten. (New Century Version)
-or-
Wise or foolish, we all die and are soon forgotten.” (Contemporary English Version)
-or-
Whether people are wise or foolish, they will still die, and no one will remember either one of them forever. In the future, people will forget everything both of them did. So the two are really the same. (English Easy-to-Read Version)

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Commentaire sur la traduction de l'Ecclésiaste 2.16

Car il n’y a pas de souvenir du sage : la conjonction כִּי kî semble introduire une raison, « Pourquoi cela est vanité ? » Qohéleth donne ainsi la réponse : « Parce que… ». Plusieurs versions disent Car, mais d’autres omettent la conjonction, peut-être jugeant que la juxtaposition suffit pour exprimer ce lien. Notons que le כִּי kî pourrait aussi marquer une emphase, « En effet, il n’y a pas de souvenir… »

Comme chez beaucoup de peuples, chez les Israélites, la notion de souvenir est vraiment primordiale. Tout au long de l’histoire des Israélites, ils dressent des pierres et font des fêtes pour commémorer certains événements. Aussi tout individu, toute famille, tout peuple voulait laisser sa trace. Quand Qohéleth écrivait, la notion de vie après la mort n’était pas courante. Le séjour des morts étaient plutôt un endroit silencieux où reposaient les ancêtres (voir, par exemple, Ps 88.11-12). Ce qui comptait, c’était que les générations futures se souviennent d’une personne, le plus souvent, à travers la tradition orale. Mais ici Qohéleth déclare qu’après la mort, il n’y a souvenir de personne, ni du sage ni de l’insensé. La Nouvelle Bible Segond dit directement « le sage ne laisse pas de souvenir pour toujours ». Dans beaucoup de langues, cette idée sera plutôt exprimée par une expression verbale, par exemple, « on ne souviendra pas… »

pas plus que de l’insensé, pour toujours. : l’hébreu dit plutôt « il n’y a pas souvenir du sage avec l’insensé, pour toujours ». Pour l’insensé, voir Ecc 2.14.

Le sens de pour toujours, en hébreu עוֹלָם leʿôlâm, dans ce contexte est difficile à cerner. Certaines versions (Good News Translation, Contemporary English Version) semblent omettre ou contourner l’expression. La Parole de Vie opte pour le sens « Tout ce qui arrive au sage et au sot, on l’oublie complètement ». Mais d’autres considèrent qu’il s’agit d’un certain temps. Ainsi la La Bible du Semeur dit « on ne souviendra pas longtemps du sage, pas plus que l’homme stupide ». Mais עוֹלָם leʿôlâm est une expression assez forte. On pourrait peut-être dire « Tout ce qui arrive au sage et au sot, on l’oublie à jamais » ou « il n’y a pas de souvenir qui dure pour toujours ni du sage, ni de l’homme stupide ».

Déjà dans les jours qui viennent, tout sera oublié : les premiers mots parlent d’un moment futur ou « le tout » sera oublié. Certaines langues préféreront dire, « tout est oublié » (Nouvelle Bible Segond). S’agit-il de tout le monde, tous les événements ou seulement les deux types de personnes, le sage et l’insensé ? La Parole de Vie suggère « les gens oublient autant le sage que le sot ».

Eh quoi ? le sage meurt comme l’insensé : Eh quoi est litt. « et comment ! », une sorte d’interjection qui exprime la frustration. Certaines versions l’omettent, mais il est bon de la maintenir. La Parole de Vie l’exprime sous forme de question : « Pourquoi donc ? »

le sage meurt comme l’insensé : en hébreu le verbe paraît en tête de phrase : « il meurt le sage avec l’insensé ». Le sage est ainsi le sujet principal, et sa mort est rapportée étant comme l’information principale.

Plusieurs versions changent l’ordre des propositions ici. La Parole de Vie dit, par exemple, « Le sage meurt comme le sot, et les gens oublient autant le sage que le sot. Pourquoi donc ? » De même la Bible en français courant met à la fin du verset : « Pourquoi en est-il ainsi ? ». Étant donné que 2.17 commence par une pensée très négative, cet ordre conviendra dans certaines langues.

Source: Zogbo, Lynell. L’Ecclésiaste – Manuel de traduction – Commentaire linguistique et exégétique de la Bible. Alliance biblique universelle, 2021.