24Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
Click or tap here to see the rest of this insight.
Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.
One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the choice of a first person singular and plural pronoun (“I” and “we” and its various forms) as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. The most commonly used watashi/watakushi (私) is typically used when the speaker is humble and asking for help. In these verses, where God / Jesus is referring to himself, watashi is also used but instead of the kanji writing system (私) the syllabary hiragana (わたし) is used to distinguish God from others.
Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.
One way to do this is through the usage (or a lack) of an honorific prefix as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. The concept of “requesting” is translated in the Shinkaiyaku Bible as o-negai (お願い), combining “request” (negai) with the respectful prefix o (お).
Other uses of honorifics in this verse include:
The choice of a benefactive construction. Here, yō ni shite (ようにして) or “do so (so that) / make it like” is used in combination with kudasaru (くださる), a respectful form of the benefactive kureru (くれる). A benefactive reflects the good will of the giver or the gratitude of a recipient of the favor. To convey this connotation, English translation needs to employ a phrase such as “for me (my sake)” or “for you (your sake).”
The usage of an honorific construction where the morpheme are (され) is affixed on the verb. This is particularly done with verbs that have God as the agent to show a deep sense of reverence. Here, ais-are-ru (愛される) or “love” is used.
Also, kudasaru (下さる), a respectful form of kureru (くれる) or “give” is used.
Living Water is produced for the Bible translation movement in association with Lutheran Bible Translators. Lyrics derived from the ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®).
You have given them to me is emphatic in Greek; it translates “which (neuter singular) you have given me” of the Greek text. Some Greek manuscripts have “whom (masculine plural) you have given me,” but this is an obvious attempt to simplify a difficult reading. John uses the neuter singular pronoun to emphasize the unity of the persons in the group.
If them in the last clause of verse 23 does refer to the disciples, as suggested above, the same is true of them in this clause. It may be helpful to make this explicit by translating them as “my disciples.”
I want them to be with me where I am is more literally “I want that where I am they may be with me.” By placing the accent mark differently on the Greek verb I am, it is possible to translate “where I am going,” but no translator does so. The desire of Jesus that his disciples be with him is not a selfish wish; it is in keeping with the intention of the Father. Jesus’ will is always identical with that of the Father (see 4.34; 5.30; and 6.38). Moreover, Jesus’ prayer does not relate to the present time, nor can it be fulfilled in this world. Jesus is thinking of the final consummation, when the disciples will see his true glory.
There may be complications in the use of the present tense in the clause where I am, for it may suggest that Jesus desires his followers remain where he is at the time of his prayer. Accordingly, it may be necessary in some languages to translate “I want them to be with me where I will be” or “… remain with me where I will be.” As already noted, in some instances there is a shift of time viewpoint between the time of Jesus’ speaking and the temporal perspective of the author as he writes.
Good News Translation changes the Greek noun phrase, “before the creation of the world,” into a verb phrase, before the world was made. In some languages it may be necessary to translate “before you created the world.”
It may be necessary to break up the rather involved structure of verse 24 and to conclude a sentence after the glory you gave me. The final expression of cause may then be introduced as a separate sentence by saying “You gave it to me because you loved me before the world was made.”
Quoted with permission from Newman, Barclay M. and Nida, Eugene A. A Handbook on the Gospel of John. (UBS Handbook Series). New York: UBS, 1980. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .
Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am: In this clause, Jesus continued to pray. He prayed that all his followers would be with him.
Father: This word is one that a child would use when speaking to his father. It indicates affection and respect. See the note and how you translated the word in 17:1. In some languages it is necessary or more natural use a personal pronoun. For example:
My Father
I want: The word the Berean Standard Bible translates as I want introduces a polite request to God. In some languages it is more natural to express a polite request in other ways. For example:
please allow
those You have given Me: In the Greek text the clause those You have given Me indicates a change of topic. This whole expression refers to all those who would believe in Jesus, a change from the 11 disciples in 17:23. Here Jesus refers to the same people referred to in 17:2b. See the note there and how you translated a similar expression. Here is another way to translate this expression:
the people that you entrusted to me (Kankanaey Back Translation)
to be with Me where I am: This expression means “might be in the same place that I am.” It does not indicate that Jesus doubted that the Father would answer his prayer. Jesus knew that he was going to his Father in heaven, and he prayed that his followers would go there also.
where I am: The Greek verb that the Berean Standard Bible translates as I am is present tense, but refers to the near future, after Jesus went to heaven. In some languages it is more natural to use a future tense. For example:
where I will be
17:24b
that they may see the glory: The clause that the Berean Standard Bible translates as that they may see the glory is more literally “so that they may see my glory.” It introduces the purpose for Jesus’ prayer that his followers be with him. For example:
so they may know my great honor -or-
Then they can see the greatness and brightness that you gave me
the glory: The Greek phrase that the Berean Standard Bible translates as the glory here refers to Christ sharing in the majesty and greatness of God. The disciples will see how Jesus Christ shares God’s highest status and greatness that shines. See Key Biblical TermsGlory 3 (B), and see how you translated glory in 17:5b and 22a.
my great honor and brightness -or-
my shining divine status
17:24c
You gave Me: This expression tells something about Christ’s glory. It is glory that God gave Christ. God honored Christ, causing him to receive honor and the highest status with him. See how you translated this idea in 17:22a. For example:
with which you have honored me -or-
which you have made mine (Phillips’ New Testament in Modern English) -or-
This is the honor and greatness that you gave to me.
17:24d
because You loved Me before the foundation of the world: This clause tells why God gave Christ glory. It repeats the idea in the last part of 17:23d. The past tense of the verb loved does not imply that God no longer loves Christ. Use a tense that indicates that God loved Christ in the past and continued to do so. For example:
because you have loved me since before the world began -or-
because you have always loved me, even before the world existed
You: The pronoun You is singular and refers to God the Father.
before the foundation of the world: This phrase refers to eternity in the past, before God made the earth. In some languages it is more natural to translate this noun phrase as a clause with a verb. For example:
before the world began to be/exist -or-
before the world was made (New Century Version) -or-
before the world was created (Contemporary English Version)
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.