inclusive vs. exclusive pronoun (Ezra 5:10)

Many languages distinguish between inclusive and exclusive first-person plural pronouns (“we”). (Click or tap here to see more details)

The inclusive “we” specifically includes the addressee (“you and I and possibly others”), while the exclusive “we” specifically excludes the addressee (“he/she/they and I, but not you”). This grammatical distinction is called “clusivity.” While Semitic languages such as Hebrew or most Indo-European languages such as Greek or English do not make that distinction, translators of languages with that distinction have to make a choice every time they encounter “we” or a form thereof (in English: “we,” “our,” or “us”).

For this verse, the Jarai and the Adamawa Fulfulde translation both use the exclusive pronoun, excluding King Darius.

complete verse (Ezra 5:10)

Following are a number of back-translations as well as a sample translation for translators of Ezra 5:10:

  • Kupsabiny: “We also asked their names, so that we could write the names of their leaders so that we could show them to you.” (Source: Kupsabiny Back Translation)
  • Newari: “We also asked the names of their leaders, to write thm down and send to you.” (Source: Newari Back Translation)
  • Hiligaynon: “And we (excl.) also asked their names so-that we (excl.) could-let- you (sing.) -know who were the ones-who-lead in building the temple.” (Source: Hiligaynon Back Translation)
  • English: “And we requested them to tell us the names of their leaders, in order that we could tell you who they were.” (Source: Translation for Translators)

informing (Japanese honorifics)

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Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.

One way to do this is through the usage (or a lack) of an honorific prefix as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. The concept of “informing” (“may it be known,” “good tidings” etc.) is translated in the Shinkaiyaku Bible as o-shirase (お知らせ), combining “inform” (shirase) with the respectful prefix o-.

(Source: S. E. Doi, see also S. E. Doi in Journal of Translation, 18/2022, p. 37ff. )

Translation commentary on Ezra 5:10

This verse is similar in content to verse 4. However, here the original text shifts from the direct quotation of verse 4 to a non-quotation. Good News Translation restructures the verse to make it read more smoothly than the syntactic order of the original Aramaic text, which is followed quite closely by Revised Standard Version. Good News Translation will be a suitable model for many translators to follow.

For your information is literally “to inform you.”

That we might write down the names: Their intention was to record the names, that is, “in order for us to write down the names.” Revised English Bible makes it explicit that they wanted to prepare a list, but no names are recorded here (see the comment on verse 4 above).

The men at their head is a fairly literal rendering of the Aramaic (also Traduction œcuménique de la Bible). Its meaning is as in Good News Translation “leaders” or Revised English Bible “those in charge.”

Quoted with permission from Noss, Philip A. and Thomas, Kenneth J. A Handbook on Ezra. (UBS Helps for Translators). New York: UBS, 2005. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .

SIL Translator’s Notes on Ezra 5:10

5:10a We also asked for their names,

We (excl.) also asked the elders, “What are your (plur.) names?”
-or-
We also asked them for their names

5:10b so that we could write down the names of their leaders for your information.

We (excl.) wanted to write the names of the men who are their leaders so that you (sing.) would know who they are.
-or-
so that we could send to you a list of their leaders.

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