inclusive vs. exclusive pronoun (Amos 6:13)

Many languages distinguish between inclusive and exclusive first-person plural pronouns (“we”). (Click or tap here to see more details)

The inclusive “we” specifically includes the addressee (“you and I and possibly others”), while the exclusive “we” specifically excludes the addressee (“he/she/they and I, but not you”). This grammatical distinction is called “clusivity.” While Semitic languages such as Hebrew or most Indo-European languages such as Greek or English do not make that distinction, translators of languages with that distinction have to make a choice every time they encounter “we” or a form thereof (in English: “we,” “our,” or “us”).

For this verse, the Jarai and the Adamawa Fulfulde translation both use the exclusive pronoun.

complete verse (Amos 6:13)

Following are a number of back-translations as well as a sample translation for translators of Amos 6:13:

  • Kupsabiny: “You are happy for the city of Lo-debar that you have plundered
    and you are proud that you have plundered Karnaim in/with your strength.” (Source: Kupsabiny Back Translation)
  • Newari: “You boast about defeating the city of Lo Debar
    You boast, "we defeated the city of Karnem by our own strength.” (Source: Newari Back Translation)
  • Hiligaynon: “You (plur.) rejoice in your (plur.) victory against the towns o Lo Debar and Karnaim, and you (plur.)say, ‘We (excl.) defeated them through our (excl.) own strength.’” (Source: Hiligaynon Back Translation)
  • English: “You are proud because you have captured Lo-Debar town,
    and you have said, ‘We captured Karnaim by our own power!’” (Source: Translation for Translators)

formal 2nd person plural pronoun (Japanese)

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Like a number of other East Asian languages, Japanese uses a complex system of honorifics, i.e. a system where a number of different levels of politeness are expressed in language via words, word forms or grammatical constructs. These can range from addressing someone or referring to someone with contempt (very informal) to expressing the highest level of reference (as used in addressing or referring to God) or any number of levels in-between.

One way Japanese shows different degree of politeness is through the choice of a formal plural suffix to the second person pronoun (“you” and its various forms) as shown here in the widely-used Japanese Shinkaiyaku (新改訳) Bible of 2017. In these verses, anata-gata (あなたがた) is used, combining the second person pronoun anata and the plural suffix -gata to create a formal plural pronoun (“you” [plural] in English).

(Source: S. E. Doi, see also S. E. Doi in Journal of Translation, 18/2022, p. 37ff. )

Translation commentary on Amos 6:13

You who rejoice in Lodebar/You brag about capturing the town of Lodebar. The Hebrew word for rejoice certainly implies “rejoicing arrogantly” here. Depending on what particular meaning one wishes to stress, such different translations as “exult,” “be/are jubilant” (The Translator’s Old Testament, New English Bible), “are so proud” (Moffatt), and brag are possible in English. Many languages have particular idioms to express such feelings, such as “your heart is sweet.”

The reason for joy is to be found later in the verse and should be made clear as capturing the town of Lodebar; a possible translation might be “you are proud because you have captured the town of Lodebar.”

Lodebar was a town on the left bank of the Jordan River, south of the Sea of Galilee and north-northeast of Bethel, the viewpoint place of the book (see Translating Amos, Section 3). It should be clear that Lodebar is a town.

Who say, “Have we not by our own strength taken Karnaim for ourselves?”/You boast, “We were strong enough to take Karnaim.” In Hebrew the first person plural suffixes make the sentence sound very boastful. This could be captured in English by translating something like, “We captured Karnaim; we were strong enough to do it ourselves.” By our own strength can often be emphasized: “It is by our own strength….” The use of boast also helps in English, and one may have something equivalent.

Karnaim is the name of a town. It was situated northeast of Lodebar, approximately halfway between Damascus and Amman. In Good News Translation Karnaim is not called a “town” because it seemed unnecessary after speaking of the town of Lodebar. But in many languages one will have to say “the town of Karnaim.”

Smith-Goodspeed and New English Bible have very different translations here. New English Bible, for example, has “you who are jubilant over a nothing and boast, ‘Have we not won power by our own strength?’ ” Such a translation is possible, because the Hebrew name Lodebar sounds like the Hebrew word for “nothing,” and the name Karnaim is the same as the word for “horns,” a picture of “power.” Many ancient translations also take this interpretation. However, it is not recommended. The context makes concrete military victories likely, and there is probably a word play. So it is better to keep the proper names in the translation and give two short footnotes like those in Good News Translation.

Quoted with permission from de Waard, Jan & Smalley, William A. A Handbook on Amos. (UBS Helps for Translators). New York: UBS, 1979. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .

SIL Translator’s Notes on Amos 6:13

6:13a you who rejoice in Lo-debar and say,

You (plur.) are happy that you have conquered ⌊the town of⌋ Lo Debar. And ⌊you⌋ say,
-or-
You (plur.) boast that you have captured ⌊the town⌋ of Lo Debar. You (plur.) also proudly say

6:13b ‘Did we not take Karnaim by our own strength?’

‘Surely, we conquered the town of Karnaim because of our (excl.) own strength.’”
-or-
that ⌊it was⌋ by your own strength that you (plur.) captured ⌊the town of⌋ Karnaim.”

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