inclusive vs. exclusive pronoun (2Sam 17:13)

Many languages distinguish between inclusive and exclusive first-person plural pronouns (“we”). (Click or tap here to see more details)

The inclusive “we” specifically includes the addressee (“you and I and possibly others”), while the exclusive “we” specifically excludes the addressee (“he/she/they and I, but not you”). This grammatical distinction is called “clusivity.” While Semitic languages such as Hebrew or most Indo-European languages such as Greek or English do not make that distinction, translators of languages with that distinction have to make a choice every time they encounter “we” or a form thereof (in English: “we,” “our,” or “us”).

For this verse, the Jarai translation uses the inclusive pronoun, including everyone.

complete verse (2 Samuel 17:13)

Following are a number of back-translations as well as a sample translation for translators of 2 Samuel 17:13:

  • Kupsabiny: “If David escapes to hide in (a) town, we shall destroy that town and no stone will remain.’” (Source: Kupsabiny Back Translation)
  • Newari: “Even if David were to take shelter in some city, then all Israel, tying that city with ropes will drag it into the valley so that not one rock remains on its foundation."” (Source: Newari Back Translation)
  • Hiligaynon: “If he flees into a town, we (incl.) will-tie-up its stone-walls and drag-it-down towards the channel/passageway of water until it will-fall-down that no stone will-be-left with one-on-top-of-another.’” (Source: Hiligaynon Back Translation)
  • English: “If he escapes into some city, all our soldiers will bring ropes and pull that city down into the valley. As a result, not one stone will be left there on top of the hill where that city was!’” (Source: Translation for Translators)

Translation commentary on 2 Samuel 17:13

If he withdraws into a city: the significance of retreating into a city is that cities were distinguished from villages by the fact that they were surrounded by fortifications. For this reason Contemporary English Version translates “a walled town.” In some languages this may be translated “if he goes inside the walls of a city….”

We shall drag it into the valley: while it was not an easy task, one way to defeat an army protected within a city was to destroy its walls as in the story of Jericho (Josh 6.20). On some occasions ropes were used to throw large hooks up to attach to the walls so that they could be pulled down. The image provided by Hushai is an exaggerated one, but he tries to give the impression of total defeat to the point that the city walls are dragged down into the surrounding valley.

Pebble: the most frequent meaning of the noun so translated in Revised Standard Version is “bundle” or “bag.” But it is also used for a kernel of grain and for a small stone. In this context it is a part of the exaggeration used by Hushai to convince Absalom of the wisdom of his proposal. In languages where it is essential to specify the size of stones, it is unnecessary to focus on its smallness. Adequate translations are “a piece of it” (New International Version) or simply “a stone” (Revised English Bible).

Quoted with permission from Omanson, Roger L. and Ellington, John E. A Handbook on the First and Second Books of Samuel, Volume 2. (UBS Helps for Translators). New York: UBS, 2001. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .