inclusive vs. exclusive pronoun (Job 17:16)

Many languages distinguish between inclusive and exclusive first-person plural pronouns (“we”). (Click or tap here to see more details)

The inclusive “we” specifically includes the addressee (“you and I and possibly others”), while the exclusive “we” specifically excludes the addressee (“he/she/they and I, but not you”). This grammatical distinction is called “clusivity.” While Semitic languages such as Hebrew or most Indo-European languages such as Greek or English do not make that distinction, translators of languages with that distinction have to make a choice every time they encounter “we” or a form thereof (in English: “we,” “our,” or “us”).

For this verse, the Jarai translation uses the inclusive pronoun, including everyone.

complete verse (Job 17:16)

Following are a number of back-translations as well as a sample translation for translators of Job 17:16:

  • Kupsabiny: “Are there things that I can still hope for when I have gone to the world of the dead?
    Or shall I take (anything) along to the world of the dead?” (Source: Kupsabiny Back Translation)
  • Newari: “What! Will it descend to the pit with me?
    What! Will it descend to the dust with me?"” (Source: Newari Back Translation)
  • Hiligaynon: “My hope will-go with me to the place of the dead-ones. We (excl.) will-go-together there under the ground.’” (Source: Hiligaynon Back Translation)
  • English: “ After I descend to the place where the dead are, will I be able to confidently expect anything good there?/I certainly will not be able to confidently expect anything good there.
    It will be as though I and the things I hope for will descend with me into the dust where the dead are.’” (Source: Translation for Translators)

Translation commentary on Job 17:16

Will it go down to the bars of Sheol?: it translates a Hebrew form that is in the feminine plural, which, according to Dhorme, suggests that originally there were two different words for “hope” in verse 15. Good News Translation is also singular, “Hope will not….” Bars of Sheol is an uncertain translation. Some scholars take the expression to be a substitute for “gates of Sheol” as in Isaiah 38.10. The Septuagint has “with me to Sheol,” which is the source of Good News Translation‘s “Hope will not go with me.” Hebrew Old Testament Text Project recommends a change in the Hebrew vowel, giving the meaning “with me” or “beside me.” In languages in which “Hope” must be expressed as a verb, Good News Translation‘s rendering will require some adjustments; for example, “Will what I look forward to come to an end with me in the world of the dead?” or “Will all that I hope for disappear with me in the world of the dead?”

Shall we descend together into the dust?: this translation follows the Septuagint. Hebrew Old Testament Text Project suggests “Shall we not together go down to the dust?” This is based on a Hebrew vowel change and is close to the Septuagint meaning. Dust is parallel with Sheol and refers to the world of the dead. This line adds nothing new to the thought of the previous line and does not heighten the poetic intensity. However, in poetic translation which keeps the parallelism, Sheol and dust may be retained. In languages in which “hope” is a verb in verse 15, the use of we in verse 16 may make no sense. In that case it may be necessary to say, for example, “and I and all I looked forward to (or, all I hoped for) will go down into the dust.”

Quoted with permission from Reyburn, Wiliam. A Handbook on Job. (UBS Helps for Translators). New York: UBS, 1992. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .